On the way to class yesterday, I noticed a few tents setup on one of the busier walkways in the middle of Georgia Tech campus. It was none other than the TechKnowOverload tour, featuring several companies trying to reach college students, including Microsoft, Nvidia and Asus. After class I dropped by the Microsoft tent where they had several laptops setup to try to woo students onto the new Windows Live Messenger beta instant messenging client. That’s when it went downhill.
With most students huddling around the iPod accessories tent, I ended up being one of the first students to actually go inside the barren Microsoft tent. I was immediately barraged by a Microsoft lady who started off the conversation asking me what it would take to get me to switch to their IM client and service. Right then, I knew it was on. I let her fire up the application on the laptop and show me some of the features before informing her and her little team that I wasn’t their average college student.
Right off the bat, I asked how to remove the ads. Her response was that Windows Live Messenger was an advertisement sponsored service and that removing them wouldn’t be possible, similar to AIM she said. I posed an alternative question regarding if the protocol was open so that an application like Gaim would be able to connect to it, and therefore bypass the ads as well. Nope, it’s closed. She then tried to convince me that the ads are “cool” and they aren’t just pictures and they can actually show movie clips or trailers with sound. Yeah, that’s the last thing I want.
As I continued the interrogation, I asked if it was open source and included a detailed API to allow a community to create useful plugins and extend the feature set. She said no really fast, adding that they have done their best to include new features so that plugins and extras wouldn’t be necessary. Apparently the profile page is “advanced” and can show the latest feed from your favorite website (I had mentioned a plugin for Adium with this same effect, so she brought it up) or song playing. However, I had referred to songs playing in iTunes, which this messenger cannot do (apparently it can, thanks to the comments).
Saving my best question for last, I let her continue to babble. She mentioned how it had some simple little VoIP features and how that can be extended so you can make global calls using MCI’s Web Calling service. Um, Skype anyone? After I shot her down once again, she mentioned how the user interface is completely customizable so you can change the buddy list color and have pictures behind your messaging window. Most IM clients do that and more already. Taking Adium for example, it is possible to change even the message style. I also noticed how horrible the messaging window’s UI was. It was just a huge window with even bigger buddy icons/avatars. I like my windows small and tabbed, thank you very much.
One thing she kept bringing up was how there is something called Sharing Folders, which sounds like a peer to peer form of filesharing the way she put it. This reminds me of that Samsung cell phone on Sprint’s Ambassador plan I reviewed a while ago, that attempts to be a media center as well as a cell phone. Why would I use an IM client for peer to peer filesharing? The simple send file is fine for me, even for large files. On the campus network, sending a file to a friend via AIM goes at a rate of 8-10MB/sec. If I need to distribute among many people, I can make a torrent or put it on my box.net account. The sharing folders concept seems to come from the stance that you will have a synchronized folder between contacts for things like photos (flickr?) and documents (gmail/IM simple file send/box.net/xdrive/bittorrent/newsgroups?). Oh and did I forget, everyone uses AIM (the protocol not the client, ie Gaim, Adium, iChat). Getting those 53 million active users, or even just a portion, to switch to Windows Live Messenger would be a monumental task. One huge barrier for getting all those people to switch over is that they have to create a PassPort account and get a hotmail email account. I don’t want all of that extra junk. If Microsoft just made its messenger email independent, as in I can sign in with a gmail or yahoo account instead of a hotmail email address, this would simplify the process greatly.
At this point, the Microsoft lady was starting to get on my nerves and seeing as how I was hungry, I decided to end this skirmish quickly. “So does this run on OS X?” I asked her. She replied “Yes, it runs on Windows XP.” Thinking she misheard my question as asking what operating system it runs on, I asked again. She replied, “Oh you mean does it run on Apple Mac.” I took a few seconds to myself to cool down so I wouldn’t say anything I would regret. Before I could reply, she said that Mac users aren’t a big concern to them just yet as there are many more Windows users at the moment (although, the number of switchers has increased dramatically recently as Vista woes have spread). The only way I would even consider using Windows Live Messenger would be if it ran on my favorite OS and all my friends used the service as well. Being the major I am however, most of my friends run Linux. We all know that Microsoft will never release a version of their IM client for an alternate OS and since the protocol isn’t open to development, we won’t be seeing a new version of Gaim with Windows Live Messenger support.
Take a look at Google Talk. Their client only runs on Windows but the Jabber protocol allows anyone with a supporting IM client to run it. Now with Google Talk integrated into Gmail, anyone can use the service on any computer with any OS. This is why I think Google Talk is at least partially successful. From the Gmail invite craze of 2004, everyone has a gmail account, if not a farm of gmail accounts. The Google Talk client is unobtrusive, small and bears no advertisements. The protocol allows for you to utilize your favorite instant messaging client, customizing the interface as it fancies you. Google Talk doesn’t promise more than it can handle. I can even talk to people that never use AIM on Google Talk, when they go to check their email.
If you think you can substantiate an argument on why Windows Live Messenger beta is better than the current standard, AIM, and the whole community surrounding it, I will give you an invite to Windows Live Messenger beta pronto. Although, I think the beta is open now so anyone can get an invite.
As for the rest of the TKO tour, the other tents were nice. I got a nice waterbottle for being the fastest kid out of a huddle of 30 to whip out their iPod.
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I visited the same area, that poor Microsoft tent, it was so bare and empty. Nothing beats open source and millions of clients, Microsoft should stick to operating systems and their DirectX, Windows Messenger to me is a 4mb waste of ram that could be devoted to something else, like Folding.
Thats awesome stuff Paul, personally I’m a trillian fan myself, but used to use GAIM. Way to stick to to Microsoft, I hope one day I have that same chance!
Nice one Paul! So much for Microsoft trying to get into the Web 2.0 movement with their so-called “Live.com”. Not only are they late, they just don’t get it. Pretty sad case. :P
I much prefer Jabber (GTalk uses the Jabber protocol), but AIM is definitely my primary IM service because everyone I know uses it. I like how Jabber can be encrypted (and is in most setups), so no one on a poorly secured wireless (Starbucks, my campus wireless network, etc) can watch what I type, it’s a federated protocol (I’ve got my own domain and use it as Jabber ID to talk to GTalk users, which rocks), and it’s an open protocol like you said- so any client can add support for it.
I disagree. Even if I conceded that Messenger was a flaming piece of garbage, it’ll still succeed when MS drops it includes it in every consumer OS that they sell.
You brought up some valid points, but my how many of those are points that our mothers would care about? I know mine will just blissfully use whatever’s in front of her, which is a safe bet for Microsoft.
I’m not saying that other protocols/client won’t succeed… I’m just saying that MS is not going to fail.
This reminds me of the time some Jehovah’s witness’ knocked on the door of my Greek Orthodox priest (who’s an Archimandrite), and he answered the door in full vestments….they were speechless. It wasn’t even worth trying.
Great article, Microsoft just isn’t getting it. Although, I’ll probably end up working for them in the future… I have to say sometimes they come up with the stupidest things. Theirs three messengers that currently rule the market, yahoo, msn, and aol. I don’t think theirs a chance of W.L. making any progress on changing that. The fact that they don’t support iTunes song titles in the profile, that’s like a major boo-boo on their part, almost everyone has an iPod now days so iTunes is right their with them. Even if they don’t have an iPod the fact that Quicktime comes with iTunes, most people like the iTunes interface over windows media.
Meh, I’ll stick with Trillian
Heh, I had a few good laughs reading this Paul. Good stuff.
However, I have to point out a few things. First off, let me first come out and say that I myself, am a Windows user, but by no means a Microsoft fanboy. I’m just gonna drop some point form notes so I don’t end up writing a novel.
Windows Live Messenger is basically MSN Messenger 8. I don’t really see much of a difference at all. You can still use Gaim, Trillian and Adium if you use WLM – I was using Adium on a Mac and switching back and fourth up until about 3 weeks ago.
It’s already hugely successfully. I live in Canada and don’t know a single person who uses AIM. I think most of the reasoning behind this is because of the name – I don’t know many Canadians who are stoked to use something that blatantly American.
You don’t need to have a Hotmail account to use it. You can use any email address to get an MSN Passport. Mine is a personal domain of mine.
That woman was so full of shit when trying to justify the ads. I’ve checked a couple times while reading your article and saw ads for Dell, date.ca and Lavalife.
The Share Folders thing is complete garbage. The other night I was chatting with a friend of mine and wanted to send them an album. I remembered about the shared folders and figured I’d try it out. I thought it would be something like giving friends access to certain folders. I was going to give my friend access to my music directory so he could just grab what he wants. Not the case. You have a folder for each user that you have to drop files into to share with them. So if I wanted to share an album with 3 friends, I’d have to copy and paste it into 3 separate foders.
Lastly (I promise!) it does work with iTunes and Winamp (maybe more, that’s all I’ve tested) as well as WMP out of the box.
Ok, I’m done here. If you get a bunch of people asking for beta invites, I have 6 available. Feel free to toss them my way.
Also… I don’t think anyone likes ads in their IM client, espeically the ones that make noises and suck you your speed just to load a little crappy movie no-one wanted to see.
Hmmm, interesting reading. Leaves me slightly worried about the future of MSN on Mac. All my friends here in the UK use MSN and I am resorted to using Adium (no bad thing) so I can IM with them, but it sounds like even that may not work in the future, how am I going to convince my friends to switch to AIM and the Macs are better if they can’t talk to their friends. grrr!!
Paul. Not only are they stupid. Their employees do not know the products. First thing I can see is a patch can remove the ads, albiet an unofficial one it still does the job. Also you can use a GMail account as a .NET passport, you just have to register it on Passport.net.
The protocal is open. GAIM and many other third party IM clients can use it. And for the plug-in subject MSN Plus has always been made by a third party to add many features. Here in the U.K. (and possibly the rest of Europe) MSN has the largest market share of IM networks and so it does not usually get a mass exodus away from it’s annoying ads and stupid tabbed things, despite many of my geek friends and I attempting to persuade the masses.
Today I reformatted my PC and instead of downloading MSN I got GAIM. It’s working out pretty well so far, I do miss putting the buddy window into my system tray though. I’m thinking that I have left behind the MSN messenger client, third party from here on in for me!
In the past that hasn’t prevented Microsoft from being successful (profitable). I think this article should be relabeled why Microsoft Live Messenger is not cool.
So I’m going to have to agree with Ken.
this is the prefect example as to why microsoft is total crap. MAC OS X ROCK!!!!!
paul tears it up again!
there is a little more to think about here, the average user. i work for a well known “web shop” and I’ve seen co-workers come in the door set up AIM and use it. Ads kickin left and right etc. They are not going to get the hacks to disable ads, disable logs, sounds, etc etc. These are the ones who are target users.
I think Windows IM is bloated to hell along with AIM. I want to chat, transfer some files bout it. No tickers, no ads, no movies..
I will give it a few +’s. If your running XBOX LIVE it’s great! MSN spaces etc. MS has been doing a good job of intergrating thier offerings within the live.com realm. The new mail is nice! Live.com works. The RSS within it is rather nice. Is it the best, no. I’ve been using IE7 and am very happy with the beta. To be honest, no issues. Again, the RSS is working, tabs etc.
I’ve been a GAIM user forever now. On OSX i use Adium. BTW, I cant stand iChat ;)
Now, I just need Kubuntu on this damn partition ;)
Haha talk about evil. Imagine what it would be like to be that representative from Microsoft. Knowing that your product lacks functionality and is unattractive, you have to convince a know-it-all that it is superior.
I agree with Ken though, that MSN Messenger is really successful. Even though its success is slowly falling, it is nevertheless the most popular IM (in Canada at least, like Matt said, no one uses AIM here).
It’s impossible software that will have enough features for some people, or too many features for others.
While the story was fun to read, I’m not sure if that’s “exactly” how the conversation went — especially since Microsoft DOES have a client for the Macintosh.
Hey Blake,
Microsoft has a regular messenger client for mac but not the new revamped one that is the “beta.”
Great article, a surgical strike like only a geek can perform.
However, you said “nobody uses MSN”. I’m sure you mean nobody in America
Agreed Daniel. There are 29 million active MSN users, somewhere.
I wonder if Scoble will read or respond to this? It’ll be interesting to hear what he has to say. I hear ya points loud and clear and they were excellent. I’d love to have been a fly in that tent to see how the lady sweated during the conversation!
those 29 Million MSN users are largely from Canada (obviously not all of them) as for some reason MSN is to Canadian teens what AIM is to American teens
I don’t think it is ‘better’. It looks ‘cleaner’ than 7.5. The protocol still works for Gaim. But GAIM will not be able to implement the shared folder. MessengerPlus! might not work anymore. Damn I’ll miss those sound plugins during video chats. Bummer.
But why will it rule? Just think of the amount of people who still use Norton. Because they want to plugin, start and not that much later someone will send them an invitation or say ‘gotta have this one MSN8 so rocks’. Bingo MSN8/WLM is installed.
But I totally agree with you.
Yeah, I kept Windows Mess Live installed for only a few days after I joined the beta. I use gaim to connect to all other networks and use aim for all my personal use with friends and everything. I personally think MS Messenger has declined over the years overall.
I’m not surprised.. The job of these reps are to harass people and try to convert the innocents by signing a contract with the devil ;) Ads sponsered apps are doomed to fail.. At least where I’m concerned.
If I look at teens, I’m not so sure that It will… Most of them don’t really realize the implacation of using free MS apps..
Kiltak[Geeks Are Sexy] Tech. News
I use Live Messenger on my Win Pc and I agree with what Matt Brett said above. I have found that does work good in some ways but I do agree with you though Paul that the UI sucks. File transfers however seem to work Ok as I used that for the first time the other day when I was chatting with Bryan at Avalonstar. All in all I will keep my Mac and Adium. Excellent piece Paul.
Well, this was indeed an interesting read. Much of what I read saying that this and that can’t be done was funny, cause I have done a lot of those this and thats.
1. WLM does work with iTunes. I use it everyday.
2. Ads can be removed with this great patch. http://apatch.ikhost.com/ and it can remove a heap of other annoying features.
3. “Everyone Uses AIM” made me laugh. I don’t use it and don’t know anyone else that does. lol.
4. You don’t need a hotmail email address to sign up. I’m using an email from my own domain and never had a problem.
That’s my 2 cents worth. I hope it has cleared up a few things.
Chris.
Chris: I didn’t know about your 4th comment. I was pretty damned sure that when I tried to cash in my Live invite it made me get a hotmail passport account.
Come on Paul, I disagree. All the people I know use MSN, in fact everyone in the country use MSN and with my experience with US citizens, a lot of them use MSN as well. I’d like to rubbish your claim that EVERYONE uses AIM, not the case, it’s total garbage and installs spyware on your computer. The program itself does nothing and Windows Messenger works just dandy. The ads are nothing to bawl about, no more intrusive that the ads you get in Gmail so I see this as a minor grievance. The sharing folders and file transfers? That’d I’d like to rubbish too, I’d just use box.net much like you would.
I’m trying to get people to use Google talk as well. Your “skype, anyone?” comment gains a no way no how from me, that program is also rubbish. The most succesful IM client may well be MSN because of its integration with the Windows OS and you know that Windows isn’t dying down anytime soon, so regardless of what you or any critic says WLM is here to stay. To put this into perspective for people, it’s like the game “50 Cent: Bulletproof”. The game got poor reviews all around yet it went platinum, i.e sold a million copies meaning there will most definately be a sequel. Windows Messenger is like the cool IM client, may not be the best in terms of ads or the lack thereof or even in having super fast transfer speeds, but it functions and the UI for the everyday user is pretty intuitive Again, from your uber 1337 geeky standpoint, I can understand why you want to call it a failure, but in no way will it fail, it’s like the videogame or song that is really horrible, but people like it anyway only in this case the song/videogame ain’t half bad.
As to the lady, she’ mixed up, I’ve been able to login to MSN via GAIM and the network has to be open, how else are we logging on to MSN via http://www.meebo.com? Also the community is getting something to do because we can now pretty easily make bots for MSN, something you couldn’t rally do before so that lady sounds like she didn’t have a clue.
The IM I think that will be second place is Google Talk, from my geeky perspective, it’s just marvelous, plus the integration with Gmail where people don’t always need to Google Talk client is pure genious on Google’s part. It’s on of those “Why didn’t I think of that” things. I’m trying to get my friends to use Gtalk as well but moving over will be a problem. In short, you’re wrong Paul :) MSN will succeed, like it or not.
I may have some error somewhere in my giant blurb just now, oh and you DON’T need a hotmail or .NET account for WLM, I’m pretty sure of that, in the options you can have it so you log into messenger with any email address you want be it yahoo, gmail, whatever. They just push for that so it checks your email, all about integration, friends. Not unlike Gtalk, but with Gtalk you HAVE to use Gmail, so in that regard MSN is more accomodative.
When I said everyone uses AIM, I meant the protocol not the client. I use Gaim on the PC and Adium on the Mac.
Otherwise, you’ve got some great points there Evan. I think she must have been confused, meebo is a good point. Unless, the Live beta uses a different protocol alltogether?
I use MSN messenger right now but the ads and all the bloat drive me nuts. Microsoft really don’t seem to get it. They always think they know best.
Hmm “does this run on OSX? yes it runs on windows xp” lmao that was just to funny. What Mac users not a concern? well the hell with them too. bahh they give me a pain.
Only cause I respect you Paul, I’m not cussing up a storm for your post :)
No man, not a different protocol, the only difference between Windows Messenger (the one that comes default with XP) MSN Messenger 7.5 and the Beta are aesthetic, that’s all. I’ve jumped from the Beta back to 7.5, the latest update for me was horrible, changed my display picture every time I logged in, would disconnect just like that, but the final pics I saw of the final version make me salivate.
http://www.livesidenet should have them
Windows messenger is a good service and everybody i know has it why do people have to say its not going to succeed come on please probably for people lthat know about computers and all that technical stuff but the truth is that 95% of the people don’t care about all the geek features all they care is for chatting that’s it. That’s why right now Msn messenger is so popular. Wake up people.
I think in between all that garbled text, Rt said some truth there. :D
I have to agree completly agree with Paul’s statments reguarding this release of Messenger. I have beta tested the last 3 versions of the software and the main UI is huge! It is a little slicker but not that great. The only way around the ads that I have found is to block the large ad networks in your Windows hosts file. the area is blank but you can’t hide the stupid thing. I guess they want ot have a bunch of crap in it that only 13 year olds would enjoy. I use all my IMing on OS X anyways so I won;t be using the app once the beta ends. What would be rally nice is if iChat wokred on more protocals. Audium and Proteus are nice as well if you are on lots of IM networks like I am. Anyways, keep up the great work Paul and I like the new theme! :)
Wow, the diggs have gotten bigger these days. Just about brought this dedicated rig to its knees. But I think it was a software issue, waiting on a call from (mt) anytime now.
Excellent article Paul, I love your insight and reviews. I included a couple of quotes from your post in a recent post on the Microsoft Weblog.
(http://www.microsoftweblog.com/2006/04/05/can-microsofts-messenger-catch-up/)
I have used both Windows Live Messenger and MSN Messenger. You only need a Passport account, which doesn’t have to be a hotmail address. I personally use my Yahoo e-mail address as my passport user name.
Where were the tents? Skiles Walkway?
Great article (and kudos to the comments!), but flawed at times.
1. box.net? Haven’t heard about it before, but already signed up!
2. What AIM? As far as I know, AIM (yes, the client AND protocol) is mostly used in the US and basically absent everywhere else. MSN is sadly the most used client here in Norway, but I use iChat with Jabber so I have the other networks available there too. Btw, for those using iChat, take a look at Chax which is a great addon to iChat.
3. As mentioned several times, you can use MSN with any email address and this has been available for years. It was only in the beginning of the MSN services that you were bound to using a hotmail address.
Clarifications:
1. Messenger can only be used with a Microsoft Passport account. However, *any* email address can be registered as a Microsoft Passport, not just Hotmail accounts.
2. Sharing folders is like file transfers, but on steroids. It not only allows you to drag and drop files to share with friends, but also keeps folders in sync between 2 people. It’s a different sharing model. ALso, file transfers are sent securely peer-to-peer if a connection can be made p2p. Sending files SECURELY peer-to-peer is a huge differentiator and I challenge anyone to argue otherwise.
3. Questioning the elegance or beauty of the UI is a non-starter. This is completely subjective. It obviously cna’t be that bad, considering there are nearly 100M users, no? I don’t know where the 29M number is coming from that was stated in earlier comments.
4. Open up your mind beyond the USA market. MSN Messenger does just fine overseas, and is dominants markets in Asia. For example, China has 1.3B people whereas USA Is at 295M. If you’re going to talk about market dominance, at least qualify it with the market you’re discussing. You obviously can’t be talking about worldwide market share or dominance.
5. There is intense focus on JABBER and open IM protocols. When’s the last time that your non-engineering friends asked about open IM protocols? They just want to chat with their friends and don’t spend time debating in blogs and chat boards about the merits of different IM protocols :)
Hi everyone. I apologise in advance if someone has already mentioned this. But the comment in the article about MSN Messenger running on Mac OS X is untrue.
There already exists an MSN Messenger on the Mac platform which works both on PowerPC and Intel architectre (through Rosetta emulation).
A new version of MSN Messenger or Live Messenger (whatever you wanna call it – it’s all the same) is on its way which will be Universal binary supported.
I’m from the UK and literally no one I know uses AIM. I even installed it once and my computer was AOLed up to a point which broke my spirit and I uninstalled it.
I live in a town of around 20,000 people and about 90% of teens here (13 – 17) use MSN regularly or have it installed it on their computers (they can operate it without being very computer literate).
MSN messenger and Live messenger beta, which I have installed, does everything we need. I don’t think it’s for the more tech-savvy people. I use GTalk as well, but I only have around 10 contacts, compared to in MSN/Live where I have 400.
You can create an account for MSN Messenger that is not @msn.com or @hotmail.com. I use my gmail account for all of my MSN account needs. When you setup your passport account you just use that e-mail instead. So, I think that the above quote is very misleading, if not inaccurate.
Even more so since the 1st step in the passport registration process asks if you want to use your already existing email or create a new one (with hotmail of course).
Sorry, but you came off as a huge jerk to that woman. She is only an employee of the company, she isn’t evil. When you say “At this point, the Microsoft lady was starting to get on my nerves” it seems an awful lot like you would have been getting way more on her nerves… In fact, your whole post stunk of ego and condescension… but anyway…
*Eeveryone* I know up here in Toronto uses MSN as their IM client. Not just for chatting with friends, but for communicating with coworkers/clients. I imagine that there are probably some large pockets of MSN users in the states as well.
“We all know that Microsoft will never release a version of their IM client for an alternate OS”
I hate to break it to you on that one, but they did release a version of MSN messenger for OSX a while back, so I see no reason why they wouldn’t eventually do it again.
-Matt
Hey Matt,
When I was talking about alternate OS I was referring to those with a small user base compared to Windows or OS X… Linux.
I’m not a huge fan of MSN Messenger but as many of my friends use it I came to learn that differently from what many people believe you don’t have to use a hotmail account to have a Passport. You can use any e-mail you want, in the installation process they just ask you if you don’t want to create a hotmail and use it, but you can easily check the box below that gives you the option to use any other e-mail.
You mentioned that everyone uses the aim protocol. That only applies to America. The rest of the world seems to like MSN. I’m from Trinidad and it’s all my friends use. I have friends from other places (St. Kitts, Dominica, Spain, Japan, Korea) and that’s all they use. I use Gaim so I could care less.
I think what will end up annoying me more than anything with the new Live messenger is that all my friends on MSN will keep trying to get me to use all the bloated features that will undoubtedly be included – for example “So and so sent you a wink/nudge/kiss”. I have an irrational hatred of these and I bless Adium that it can’t display them.
I’m slightly confused – is the new Live beta a completely different protocol? If it isn’t then when my friends “upgrade” it won’t affect me, but if it is then that would suck. From reading the discussion it sounds as if the protocol is the same and the woman misundestood, but correct me if I’m wrong.
Especially in the UK, we have to live with MSN. There’s no point in not having an account since everyone else has it – the only contact I have on Gtalk is my boyfriend so that we could talk to each other without having to log on to MSN. Again, thank heaven for Adium.
Check it out… looks like developers will be able to create plugins for Windows Live Messenger. I’ve actually ditched all other protocols in favor of MSN. Why? It works well with Windows, and since I’m a Windows Admin – I pretty much live in a Microsoft world.
http://www.liveside.net/comments.php?catid=2&shownews=168
Omg, Some of the stuff you said you had no idea what your talking about!
First off, you can use any email you want, just a simple sign up with your email and your done, I use my Gmail account with MSN MEssenger. Next…The interface is great its not all BIG like you said!…Secondly advertisements at the bottom? who cares? every IM has it, just ignore it…I say alot of your comments were good but not true. The File sharing I dont use but you can use both either file sharing or just regular, and the file sharing is good for sending multiple files also if you need to logoff, and log back on it will go back to its percentage…like torrent?
very well written article Paul, but unfortunately i found it to be quite biased. i work at a position where i soon am going to be competing directly with MSN within the MIM area, and i have accumulated a substantial understanding of Microsoft’s growth, current status, strategies and where it’s headed in the past couple of years. Microsoft might not be dominating the market you are in, which is the tech-oriented niche youth market of the US where alternative open source/ open protocol systems are hip and everybody is keen on developing their preferred environment themselves, but the truth is that your world is a teeny tiny one when compared to the Windows Live target market. they are not interested in impressing people like you or making you happy, because the majority of the world does not share the same interests or knowledge. there are basic needs that Microsoft intends to satisfy with its products, and those are the needs of the following types of people, from all 7 continents – not just northern america where the IP infrastructure is utilized at its utmost capacity:
- average white collar professional who utilizes little more than basic office and IP tools on his/her PC
- the housewife who uses a computer to do very basic tasks such as word process / listen to music / search for recipes or maybe set up her own little website if she’s a bit more advanced ito/ technology
- students who are not even remotely interested in hardware/software/etc. and freak out even if they hear any jargon regarding these topics
- elementary & highschools which need a no-hassle easy to use environment without any customization and an easy access to tech support
the list goes on and on, but i guess you get the picture. their target is not people like you, it’s your grandpa or your 12 year old sister or your pet monkey! Windows Live is a concept through which Microsoft intends to diffuse into the average people’s lives, not the 0.1% communications freaks such as yourself. And in the meantime they diffuse their happy colorful advertisements into these lives as well! why not make money in the process while you can, right? it’s part of the company’s business model, and giving a hard time to their outdoor stand representative will not make any difference. She was probably just a “presentable” woman who works for a mobile marketing agency, and will be promoting an entirely different product for a different company the next day. It might be a much better idea to send this above article to real company representatives. Otherwise, the people reading your blog and hearing you ideas will only be people like you! unless you only want an ego boost, this won’t be very beneficial for anybody…
Windows Live is “all in one”, and it is an act on Microsoft’s side in order to protect its user community of hundreds of millions of people. today you don’t need to worry about whether your uncle in Bolivia or India or Turkey can use MSN, because 99% chance he will have access to an ordinary PC (if not at his house or work, there will at least be an internet cafe nearby) with some version of Windows OS installed, and will be able to use MSN (whether it be MSN Live or the prehistoric msn2.1) on at least a 16kb dial-up connection. get the picture? do you think such a person will even know about AIM or Gaim or Audium or whatever you and your friends use? I doubt it… Even if they did know about it, what good would it do to them? No matter how annoying the Microsoft lady was at the stand that day, she did tell you the truth about MS not being worried about the Mac users (or any other OS for the time being), because -like it or not- they are still a monopoly in this business. The mere reason companies like Google are so open and so friendly and so great right now is because they have to be that way in order to compete with this worldwide giant. they form alliances, they welcome people to access their resources, develop new applications and patches, unite their communities, etc etc… Why? because otherwise they don’t stand a change against Microsoft. it’s the basic rule of life: if you’re not strong enough to fight against the world on your own, then cooperate with all the little people and fight for the united benefit of the little people. Do you think they would still be the same way if they were in Microsoft’s shoes? Probably not… because they’d have no reason to.
I am not sure whether the Windows Live project is going to be successful, but Steve Ballmer seemed quite sure during his little show at the 3GSM Conference in Barcelona. With this project Microsoft is not only challenging the computer and/or IP world, but it is challenging the mobile operators and service/application providers as well. it’s a big move, and smart people like yourself should see the bigger picture.
Can Some one tell me how can i fix my 7.5 messenger everytime that I sign in does let me see who is online feel free to send me an email… If u have anything to help me please… I will be more than happy. Thank You so much…
My email is
emmanuel_pr18@hotmail.com
Thanx
and i hope that some one can help me with my problem
ya windows is terrible, i only have a dual boot so that i can use dialup with my winmodem. i tried windows live messenger and again terrible, crappy colour scheme, huge icons, too many ads, and all around a pain in the ass. i’ll just stick with aMSN and GAIM for fedora. 84% of instant messaging in canada is through msn, sad but true.
microsoft’s aim is not to have the “best” by any standard or preference IM client. their aim is quirte simple, microsoft knows that 99% (if not more) people really have no idea when it comes to using a computer. those people will be running a windows OS with probably no knowledge that other IM clients than the one installed with windows exists.
i use MSN becuse everyone i know uses it so i have no choice if i want to communicate with them.
WLM i am sure will be by no means a failure because the average user doesnt know any better than using an IM client that uses 40meg of ram running idle
That sounds seriously like a very bad step for Microsoft to take. Don’t they realise that closing their coee off even more than before is the exact opposite of what they need to be doing to survive in the ever changing market??
The MSN for Mac that currently exists in version 5 but its the most unstable app I have ever had the misfortune to use, hence why I prefer to use AdiumX.
It would be nice to think that Microsoft would be updating it to the same standard as their Windows version, but that would be wishful thinking. I half expect her to say “OS what?” when you asked her if Live ran on is…lol
hehe, I must say that I have been using msn8 or Windows Live messenger as they call it since the first week of the beta (I know someone who knows a guy who has this friend who knew how to crack the msn8 so it thought it was going though the msn7 protocall so that it worked ;) ).
Now a few words: Yes you can use a gmail account or yahoo email account to log into msn you just need to regester it with the msn service… i cant remember how to do this but im sure google will help… also I have never used the shared folders option, as you say send file is good enough and anything large can be either ftp’d or torrented. Personally I would rather use a IM client that was universally applicable to all os’s with webcam support so I can chat with everyone. I hear there are IM clients out there that can login to many different IM protocalls such as AIM, YIM and MSN to name the main three; and indeed I have attempted to use one of these programs but the UI was so utterly crap that I decided to go back to msn.
For me MSN works, still, i dislike the advertising (however I have manged to hack it so they now dont appear), I have no use for the shared folders, the lack of formatting features annoys me and I cant share webcam with my friends using macs – also the 40MB of ram to run the program is a total burden… well not with 2GB of system ram maybe but its still a waste of resources.
I like pretty UI’s this is why I love apple (even if I cant afford one at the moment) I have tried one of the IM clients that logs into all the clients but it was ugly and uninstalled in a seccond.
Also Everyone I know uses MSN, and the few people on macs I know have YIM so sharing webcam is easy if not a burden to have two clients open.
When my next new pc purchase comes along due to vista I shall probably be converting fully over to apple buying a macbook or similar and using my current pc as file server/games machine :)
[quote]2. Sharing folders is like file transfers, but on steroids. It not only allows you to drag and drop files to share with friends, but also keeps folders in sync between 2 people. It’s a different sharing model. ALso, file transfers are sent securely peer-to-peer if a connection can be made p2p. Sending files SECURELY peer-to-peer is a huge differentiator and I challenge anyone to argue otherwise.[/quote]
HAH! P2P (peer-to-peer) is not a secure source to transfer files, it never has been. If you’re worried about secure tranfers you better start looking into VPN solutions.
You can use any email for your passport. I use my home email address (my own domain which I’m sure you can see as the blog admin) to use Live Messenger. With the Mess patch, you can remove all the advertisements and a whole lot else. It makes it more awesome than it already is.
Here’s the mess patch:
http://www.bigblueball.com/forums/local_links.php?action=jump&id=48&catid=3
To concede though, AIM usage is high, so I run Trillian and Live Messenger in parallel.
Thats why you get patches and remove the ads! and all the BS you dont need
i totally agree here. what makes it worse though, is not the fact they are filling their messenger with crap, but the fact half the stuff in it doesnt work. Buddy icons often do not appear, interactive experience with the games and things are often broken and files transfers are just slow and rarely ever complete. I have a 10mb connection, yes not the fastest, but a 4kbps transfer speed is not impressive at all! I think its not just the client that needs an overhall, its their whole network, so microsoft, fix it!
I’ll tell you why it will succeed: large customer basis.
I just got it- might make lots of changes to it for fun until I get bored of the garish colours and lack of actual new features…
LOL, this “won’t success” stuff means they got 8 million users in 2 weeks in beta state…
By the way, no one is using msn means 200 million users…
And they don’t get web 2.0? They made web 2.0. Microsoft created ajax in 1998, ie was the first (and for years the only) browser that supported ajax…
Open source is 5-10 years behind them in general.
I use MSN Messenger/Windows Live Messenger because:
1) Here, it’s what EVERYONE uses.
2) You can disable the ads by messing with the hosts file
3) It fits in and looks alright (as in not too different from everything else here on my XP desktop)
I’d like to replace it but I simply haven’t found a *reliable* client for Win XP that:
1) Connects to MSN
2) Does buddy icons, nicknaming and personal messages
3) Makes file transfers work (all the time)
4) Works with MSN webcam and speech
5) Runs the MSN games.
I’ve tried Gaim, Jabber gateways, etc. Yet, none have worked satisfactory.
I like Google Talk but nobody uses it.
Here’s the situation. Skype video is absolutely unreliable. iChat is great (my wife has a MacBook), but AIM and firewalls and routers is a pain, and you can’t (out of the box) initiate the connection from the Mac side without poking ports and such. MSN Live Messenger’s video protocol is solid, and reliable, and there are no ports to change, nothing.
It commodity stuff to me. I don’t care what software I use. And I really want to (out of the box) be able to video call between Mac (iChat) and Windows (whatever software). But the software has to be solid, reliable.
Any other options I’m missing – and mind you, I don’t have the time to get out my tools and open the hood on this stuff.
Kirk
Re: Al.
lol. Holy blinded microsoft fanboy, batman!
Al sez: “And they don’t get web 2.0? They made web 2.0. Microsoft created ajax in 1998″
Surely you know you’re making this sound like something it’s not, don’t you? A discussion of Web 2.0 doesn’t involve Microsoft, let alone a claim that “they made it.” Dunno what sort of kool-aide you were sipping there, but it must be strong stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2.0
“Many find it easiest to define Web 2.0 by associating it with companies or products that embody its principles. Some of the more well known Web 2.0 entities are Google Maps, Flickr, del.icio.us, digg, last.fm, and Technorati.”
Hmm, what about all those cool Microsoft Web 2.0 projects? You know the websites I mean, like…… er…. ah.. yeah. Ok.
Al sputters “Microsoft created ajax in 1998″
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX
“Ajax or Asynchronous JavaScript and XML, is a web development technique for creating interactive web applications…”
“Although the term “Ajax” was coined in 2005, most histories of the technologies that enable Ajax start a decade earlier with Microsoft’s initiatives in developing Remote Scripting.”
“Like DHTML, LAMP, or SPA, Ajax is not a technology in itself, but a term that refers to the use of a group of technologies together.”
“The first use of the term in public was by Jesse James Garrett in his February 2005 article Ajax: A New Approach to Web Applications. Garrett thought of the term while in the shower[1], when he realized the need for a shorthand term to represent the suite of technologies he was proposing to a client. ”
So, you see, Microsoft was not on the leading edge inventing Ajax either. The invented the equivalent of fire and matches, but didn’t see how they’d work together. Certainly credit is due to Microsoft for working on the relevant technologies, but “The Web development community, first collaborating via the microsoft.public.scripting.remote newsgroup and later through blog aggregation, subsequently developed a range of techniques for remote scripting in order to enable consistent results across different browsers. In 2002, a user-community modification to Microsoft Remote Scripting was made to replace the Java applet with XMLHttpRequest.”
So, looks like Microsoft wasn’t exactly leading the charge here either.
As far as the article, I tried Live back a couple months ago, almost threw up when I saw the UI, and uninstalled it. I’ll wait until Messenger Plus supports it.
And yes, I can chime in as yet another Canadian that has all of their contacts on MSN, with no AIM/AOL, ICQ or Yahoo for that matter. I suspect Americans only use AIM as so many of you had or use AOL for internet access beginning years and years ago, where as we had regional ISPs, so it was ICQ or MSN. MSN won with it’s cleaner interface. Remember how ICQ literally had about 4 ways to do everything, with menus upon menus? Nasty, lol!
…Donovan
Here’s a good question for Microsoft… why the hell does Windows Live Messenger have so many useless features and why do they continue to add features despite the fact that nobody gives a damn about them?
I’m the average user and I want a simple messenger to communicate with others. After all, that’s the whole point of it. I don’t want to install a new 20 Meg version every 3 days because they added more crap to it. I don’t want my life to revolve around it. I don’t want to spend hours trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with it when it crashes 10 times in a row.
I don’t think it will fail because of people like me who don’t want to spend more time trying out different messengers when there’s one on your computer already.
I don’t know if someone has mentioned this before, but you CAN use Windows Live Messenger by using @google.com or @yahoo.com or whatever e-mail you got. You do this through making an e-mail as sign in (EASI) account. Poke around and you should see the option to make one.
Live Messenger is toooooo slow. I hate when IM programs (like ICQ for example) get too overloaded with other useless features that make them too complex to use.
But yes, you can use a different email address to get a passport account. Speaking of AIM, I actually have a contact on my MSN list who’s passport is an AOL email address.
And to voice what many others have said, a great deal of people use MSN. I have friends all around the world where MSN is the prevelant IM program. You have to think outside of America. I used to hate MSN because I used to use ICQ and Yahoo before, and compared to them MSN was so basic. But eventually I had to switch because everyone started using MSN. And now I don’t know anyone who uses anything else, even AOL girl I mentioned above only uses MSN.
In response to your comment on using your own email address you actually can, although I admit it’s a bit hard to find.
Vist http://passport.net – register your email address and you can sign into MSN with it. I use my .Mac account email to sign into MSN :-)
I just find it funny that people are used to reading things online, which are surrounded by ads, yet they whine about some ad that is barely noticeable (
Oops, didn’t notice no less-than brackets allowed…anyway, to continue…
… that is barely noticeable (less than 1 inch, depending on resolution I guess) or if the contact window is not even open, the ad is not displayed at all.
The ad’s in msn and windows live messengers can easily be removed using another windows technology. Open IE and go to the most viewed sites in history. Simply copy the adresss from the page thats the ad and put it on the blocked list in IE settings.
My computer does not support sharing folders. Wat can i do 2 make it work?
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned, but you can use a gmail account for windows live messenger.
Just want to point out that you you can associate non-hotmail accounts with Passport.net. (But then the check mail and inbox status wouldn’t work so well ;p)
anything that has something to do with windows live is now screwed. spaces… everything…
I really like live messenger…
you do not need a hotmail account to use windows live messenger…
i am using it with my gmail email account (google) and my yahoo email account…
just associate what ever email address you want with an new or existing passport account…
cool stuff…
“If Microsoft just made its messenger email independent, as in I can sign in with a gmail or yahoo account instead of a hotmail email address, this would simplify the process greatly.”
You can…
I have a belgacom.net account which I to sign in with, and from what I have heard, gmail users automaticly are registered to the passport service so you can login without any other troubles… No hotmail account required.
Might have changed though, and if it has, im sorry for writing this:P
-Arre
i disaggree with u. i think windows live messenger is great. u can use yahoo email with it as well. it is completely custimizable with a patch tool easily found on the internet
hello i dont like windows live mail and i want to delete it how do i do that?! because when i try and edit my space its very different to how it used to be so i want to change it now!! help me please
Since Apple has decreased it’s prices, and the macbooks are really affordables, I’m a P.C user that has decided to switch.
I have always wanted to own a mac and since now I can, I will do it as soon as possible.
I think microsoft are making a huge mistake by not making their new messenger run on OS X.
I don’t think the new vista will convince all those wannabe mac users to stay on a P.C. Apple finally got it, we need cheaper mac to make the switch.
Adios P.C.
I use windows live messenger, but i dont think it really depends on the “features” of a IMclient, just on whos the biggest. As if the tens of millions of people on AIM are guna switch over to Yahoo Beta or Windows Live coz they think its “better” too much work. I’m dutch, and in Europe MSN Messenger is huge, simply we dont like nothin wit AMERICA in it, (AIM) whahahhaha. So everyone uses MSN, now “Windows Live” (i hate all that live stuff, just a new name, doesnt really mean anything).
Personally, I’m a big IMer, i have googletalk, yahoo, msn, yahoo and sum small other stuff. i’ve used trillian, but I only really need MSN Messenger, so I really don’t see the need.
I’m NOT a MICROSOFT fan at all. Though I must say theyre improving. Ow and btw… U HAV TO HAV AN HOTMAIL ACCOUNT? u dont, u can register with any email account. And this more than a year ago, maybe its different in the US? But I don’t see how this can be the case.. anyways.
Windows Live now support chattin with Yahoo users, and Skype? well if you hav all of your contacts u need on ur MSN list, its just like skype and even better, u can call normally too, play games, application sharing, the sharing folders… My mom doesnt do torrents, she wudnt know whaere to begin, the name wud freak her out. I even hav my grandma on, and wana send her my pictures, all i do is drag and drop, when she comes on it does it automaticly,so it can be handy.
In denmark nearly everybody is on Windows Messenger so I only think you use AIM because it started out as an america online service, are there any trouth in that? before XP came there were loads on ICQ but all switched over.
hey I’m a new mac user and i’m totally lost. can anyone help me please.
Rasha, msn live messenger is not available for the mac. You can get hold of msn for the mac but not the latest version.
Ed – thanks a lot! This worked like a charm. I’m going to post it again in case someone else missed it.
“The ads in msn and windows live messengers can easily be removed using another windows technology. Open IE and go to the most viewed sites in history. Simply copy the adresss from the page thats the ad and put it on the blocked list in IE settings.”
I’ll just elaborate for the less computer literate, if you don’t mind.
So all you have to do to get rid of the ads is open Internet Explorer, go to “history” (a toolbar should appear on the side), and click “View: by most visited”. Then there should be something near the top which looks like this:
“http://rad.msn.com/ADSAdClient31.dll?”…
Don’t click it – instead, right click and select “properties”. The URL should be highlighted in front of the words “Internet Address”. Hit CTRL+C to copy this URL.
Next, under “Tools”, select “Internet Options”. Go to the “Security” tab, and there should be four menus (with colourful logos): Internet, Local Intranet, Trusted Sites, and Restricted Sites. Click on “Restricted Sites” (should be a red circle with a white line through it).
On the right, there’s a button labeled “Sites…”. Push the button and a new window pops up. Select the field “Add this Web site to the zone:” and push CTRL+V to paste the copied URL in. Then just click “Add”, and you’re done!
Congratulations. Next time you open Windows Live Messenger, the advertisements field will be blank. True, it doesn’t get rid of it so there’s a bunch of wasted space, but at least there isn’t an annoying animated ad there like there was before. Yay!
Plugins can greatly extend usability of Messenger. Just checkout msgplus live. Also, you don’t need a hotmail account to use messenger. I use my yahoo and gmail accounts fine, all you need to do is verify them.
And no, outside the boundaries of US society AIM is almost unheard of. Microsoft need not worry too much about the US market. Because Messenger is really the world’s biggest IM client.
The only good thing about any of Microsofts comunsumer products (as opposed yo business) besides picture it, are there email “hotmail & msn intergrated” Windows Live Spaces is weak and In my opinion fail once msn shuts down all chat rooms and groups with everybody on my space now anyway (IT SEEMS EVERYBODY IS ON BOTH AIM AND MY SPACE THESE DAYS) Microsoft thinks they know what best for you , You dont know what you want ! I mean you cant even use a simple social networking function such as buddy chat like on AIM and msn or live wants to cancel chat services and compete with the likes of AIM and MySpace ???
They say that its no longer a popular medium but there are at any given time 2500 users logged on to it and now with no “searchable ” multi user chat function in WLM only the ability to chat with multiple people that are on your contact list only who will use this????
And now with msn who never properly advertised there chat ” the very reason anybody would use competitor online service AOL is the chat rooms-community)
they couldve put text ads or had there sysbots room guards post periodical links to partner sites like ebay or verizon or audi telling of new products what not???
Who will use msn internet services now??? or subsctibe to hotmail plus
and with this kind of user drop off who will use Window Live messenger?
This has been mentioned in a few of the comments. But something I would like to reiterate. I forgive you as I understand as an American its hard to see anything beyong your own country. But Windows Live (formerly MSN) messenger has the largest user base in the World – the WORLD. AOL is pretty much not used outside of the US. In Europe (or EMEA – Europe, Middle East, Africa region) the user base is massive, not to mention Oceania, Asia. China is a huge virgining market for them as they have released there in the past year or so.
Messenger clients are all about being able to “chat” with people on the internet so it should be remembered that the internet does go outside of the US. So why limit yourself to a “chat” product that has only a US user base. I have friends from all around the world and i am sorry but all of them use MSN/Windows Live Messenger.
Yeah guys, like several fellow Europeans have already stated: MSN is standard here in Europe. I’m from Sweden, and a popular joke – yet painfully accurate – is that when picking up chics nowadays, you don’t ask for their number – you ask for their MSN-adress.
I’m also a mac user, and I have to point out that just the other day a new version of MSN was released for OS X, called Windows Live Messenger. It’s still as gay as ever but hey, look at it this way: I’ve got all of my friends on MSN and maybe I don’t get video and nudges and shit like the PC-users get, but at least I have no stupid tabs and I’m completely ad free (touch wood).
Good article, though. Very thorough and very funny, alas very american. ;)
Be good now !
Sebastian
And yeah, one more thing.. AIM and AOL are pretty much non-existent outside of the US. That’s the problem with iChat.
I’m a mac user and I’d give half a leg to be spared from the microsoft reign of terror. I’d love it if everyone I know went over to iChat instead, but let’s face it: Windows Live is – after all – a pretty descent client, and after using iChat for a week or two I sorta admit that it sucks.. ass.. big time, in comparison to MSN.
Plus, the only ones I’ve got on my iChat list is like my mom and some dude in Canada. Logging onto iChat is for me like opening up an empty old wallet with moths flying out of it. It’s dead, you know? I feel that Apple is doing the same error with iChat as Microsoft is doing with MSN: limiting the possibility of conversation to a single protocol, forcing users to choose between one of two worlds (or three, with Skype) for hooking up with your homies online.
In my utopia, best would be to have one single communicative protocol with heaps of independant clients to choose from – most of which open source and completely ad free. But I don’t know, with corporate america trying to dominate the world and all. ;)
Sorry for the length of the post, just had to point out a lot of functionality issues with all chatting services mentioned here. Although its no surprise that the lady misinformed you (corporations and especially microsoft rarely put informed people in unpredictable public situations…its dangerous), I would have expected someone complaining so much about ignorance to have probably done a lot of this homework already :)
Just wanted to say that Microsoft passports have been open to any e-mail adress (used for verification). Also there are open source MSN Messenger protocols tht work at least for chatting capabilities (rest of the Windows Live Functionality will be along time coming for any Microsoft Messenger). Now also there is a MSN Messenger Version specifically made for Mac, but its basically similar to the Windows Messenger preinstalled on XP (a few of the profile viewing features added of course). VoIP features on Microsoft Messengers has been a feature for over 4 years I believe. Also the 52mil people your quoting…most of them are in the US. Many of these things are actually very true of AIM as well. File transfer and other features offered by AIM took years to be supported by 3rd party apps using the AIM protocols. Also AIM protocols that most 3rd party apps use are actually weaker and less secure. AIM and iChat are still not fully compatible either.
MSN, Yahoo, and ICQ(I wonder if any of u guys even remember that one any more :) ) dominate many regions. Although I still use primarily more US based chat services I keep MSN and ICQ to chat with family/friends all over the world that dont use AIM but thats about it. MSN is using all of these new features mostly to retain their international market share as well as trying to gain a little more market in the US.
This lady fed you a lot of uneducated corporate bullcrap, she was fed some facts and she regurgitated them with a little embellishment that she felt would be in the direction her superiors were lookin for. Although I dont propose you make the switch to Windows Live, or any Microsoft Messenger, I do say that you at least do a lil more homework than listening to someone who doesnt even know what OS X is or even that ads probably can be removed on Windows Live (just like they are on AIM…unofficially)
A few facts here may be outdated or slightly innacurate cus I’ve stopped paying attention to the specifics of functionality w/ chatting services considering the services out there provide everything I need, but if enough people have problems w/ any part of what I’ve said here anyone (probably the author cus I assume he has my e-mail from the post) is welcome to contact me to re-do research to present.
Oh yeah also wanted to add…the reason I believe I still feel MSN live and kciking is because it has some fairly stringent security measures in place. Unlike AIM you dont hear of MSN viruses. Although I do agree this model is likely to stagnate as people learn to protect themselves online, it is still an important factor and may continue to keep a loyal fanbase for years to come.
Yes but you see yahoo and msn are combining to make windows live shitenger. This means even though yahoo and msn had open proticols that soon we might loose all our friends on those networks if we don’t get this new POS
Hi, well much as I agree messenger is a flaming pile of garbage it is boringly simple, and so I use it, I’m not a typical idiot and thats not the reason I use it. The point is if it’s dropped in front of every other person I knows nose theyll sign up and use it, and whilst I’m sure there are better clients out there I don’t use them because the people I want to talk to don’t so me on my own is a totally pointless IM client, alternatively i could go on a one man crusade to convert everyone I know but then I’d end up talking them through it and seeing as most people I know dont know what the control panel is I’m not going to try it.
Another point I wouldn’t mind bringing up is the sharing folders. Ive used them and they are actually quite useful. Just the same as sending a file through a p2p IM client but with a glossy UI over it. The thing that attracted me was it automatically resumes when the connection randomly dies so you dont need to try and re-send.
Its a pointless debate really seeing as I was looking for how to make msn live or 7.5 (I dont care which) to work with vista RC1 for some reason mine just doesnt connection error 81000306 as always microsofts help wanted to know if my internet worked and if I had a firewall, Cheers Msoft real useful, you think I could view the help page if my internet didn’t work??
Anyways my rants over – J
Well what can I say it SUX and advisment.. lol got rid of it qucli it sucked a LOT!I want old MSN back or It will be GAIN for eva :P
Old msn shuld BE avalable! for use ..
MS plzz stop bitshing…
Clarification on the “Passport” comments above and Windows Live Messenger (as opposed to the previous versions).
I was in the process of setting up a new employee on Windows Live Messenger (Account Setup), and the ONLY option is to choose from the drop down is hotmail – why a drop down if there is no choice???
There is no reference to the Passport feature – wondering if that is pashing out with Windows Live version?
Does anyone know how to sign up for an Windows Live Messenger account without first setting up a Hotmail account?
Thanks!
I still use msn messenger 7.5, it runs faster than 8.0 and it does all the same things. Most of my friends are still using it.
I think Windows Live messenger is very bad so I think the best in the world is Skype everyone try it it is the best!
not windows live messenger hmmm how many of windows OS does it support now ?it now only supports XP home and newer.how fast bill gates forgets what got him to where he is today (hmmm)the people that forked out hard earned money for ther OS can now garbage them.Dig into your pockets again and buy XP OS but wait is it not obsotete.Vista is comming meaning soon to garbage XP because bill gates will no longer support it as well.(stop see another gates rip-off comming)non supportive OS systems in the trash at our expence. no problem another headach for ther customers.Bill Gates backtrack and suport your operating systems be a man keep your word and give full suport like you promised.for a starter make windows live work on all your OS systems give us what we payed for.
I think MLM still use same protocol as windows messenger/MSN messenger, so if you don’t want to see ads or prefer a simple interface, just use ol’ windows messenger instead…… i never bothered to upgrade, windows messenger just works fine for me.
Another thing, even saying everyone in US use AIM is a false statement, most the people i know and all my coworkers use windows messenger. In fact, only people i know use AIM are some ebay geeks and since i refuse to install AIM client, whenever I need AIM to communite with somebody, I just use the web client……
WLM is huge outside of the US. Here in England, WLM/MSN is the defacto IM service/client. AIM is virtually unheard of. In fact, I’m pretty sure AIM isn’t used much anywhere outside the US. I’d guess that WLM (or Y!) actually is #1 worldwide by quite a margin.
That doesn’t mean WLM is the best client, only that MS isn’t as ‘lost’ as you’re post would imply ;) I only use it cos everyone else does.
Good one Paul. Good one Thanasi. Greeks know, man…
ummm…I am using windows live messenger…yes i know it sux but here in singapore every1 uses it. i love itunes but when i play sings y doesnt windows live display the song?
i mean when i play the songs y doesnt windows live messenger show the song information as a personal message?
Interesting debate – however I have tried some open source products and they cant seem to reproduce evertything that I now take for granted in my Live messenger/Live messenger plus package
I want something that will run on windows cos thats the platform I have and I cant be arsed to fiddle around with linux and the like.
I want to be able to talk to people on msn and yahoo – I can
I want to be able to cam to cam – I can
I want to be able to use the same client for voice chat – I can
I want to be able to add fun things like smilies, winks emoticon sounds etc – I can but wish I could find more free ones without adware etc – also wish there was an editor included to design my own.
and sometimes I just want basic text chat – I can
on my wish list is the ability to search for other users in some directory to find people of similar interests to chat with and the ability to bolt things like skype into the same interface. I am not a believer in finding alternatives but rather to pressure for additions to existing products
Arrogance is arrogance. We all are irritated with Microsoft’s arrogance, but they have actually created products that have changed the way people live and work-scoreboard. Granted it has been a while since they have offered techtonic changes, but those kind of advances are few and far between. You on the other hand just have the arrogance. You are right. Microsoft is playing catch up on a number of areas. But your arrogance is just as ugly.
well i have to say, windows live is the biggest im client in the united kingdom. when mixed with messenger plus live! its amazing. everyone uses windows live/msn in the uk, not aim. this is because of huge advertising and every1 got it. wlm is good, i hav no complaints
my msn won’t sighn in itis the first time it’s happened its rwally annoning i got to go on web messenger what shall i do
well i do like msn live but you cant paste any messages into your personal message like if i wanted weird writing i would go on to weirdmaker type my text in it would appear how i want it and i go to put it into my message box and it won’t let me paste and it does ma heading!
thank you
Well I like your way of giving microsoft a foot up the arse. I mean how can they not make it multi-os programs. The only reason i dont have a Mac is I am a cheapo. And i am too stupid to get linux and learn how to use it. But i am saving for a macbook. I used trillian but as i stated before i was too dumb to realise how to use it. SO i reverted to MSN because it is the only one i know how to use. Can anyone like describe the interface of linux to me? i never quite understood what it looked like.
I never heard of anyone using AIM, GAIM, or whatever. Everyone I know uses MSN or WLM, maybe, since I live in Canada.
So it’s safe to say this article is nothing but a piece of worthless 2 cent junk to me.
Good Day,
Lolz.
I live in Mexico and nobody knows what AIM, Linux or Mac is.
And we are USA neighbors. Now, imagine the rest of Latin America.
So yeah, WLM may be garbage, but everyone’s going to use it still.
Hey. Neat arguments. I completly agree with u. but i did wanna point out that u can infact use a aol or gmail or yahoo email account to access Windows live messenger. For example. i use my own email server with Windows live messenger. (buddg@buddg.com)but i prefer gaim as well. WLM has to many jingles for me.
As if it wont survive – there will always be critics, small minded, uni student soapboxes who claim they can see the future… reality is, you’re just a small minded uni student who likes to soapbox.
To cite that not being supported on mac is a reason to justify a position of of WLM not surviving is ludicrous…. who gives a shit about mac users? 5 – 10 %? after how many years? If anything the last year has shown the port to Intel hardware, the inclusion of parallels and the like has shown that 5-10% player has been forced to suck it up and give in to how the rest of the world operates.
To cite AIM as being the best and leader – America online…. i thought that isp was just for noob/retards? Perhaps your comments where meant only for American readers though…
Some research from when you posted this:
London, April 10, 2006 – comScore Networks, the leader in digital media measurement, today released the results of an analysis of instant messenger (IM) usage in various parts of the world. According to the study, eighty-two million people, or 49 percent of the European online population, used IM applications to communicate online in February. In comparison, sixty-nine million people in North America, or only 37 percent of the online population, used IM during the same time frame. Interestingly, the analysis showed that IM is most heavily used in the Latin American region, with 64 percent of the online population using IM in February.
The MSN Messenger application has the strongest penetration worldwide, with 61 percent of worldwide IM users utilizing the application in February. MSN Messenger is also dominant in Latin America, reaching more than 90 percent of IM users, and in Europe and Asia Pacific, reaching more than 70 percent of IM users in each region. North America is the most competitive IM market, with MSN Messenger, AOL/Aim and Yahoo! Messenger each garnering between 27 percent and 37 percent of IM users in February.
Additional IM programs are gaining ground, especially outside of North America. Skype is now used by 14 percent of IM users worldwide, although this application is used by only 3 percent of the online population in North America. Skype appears most popular in Asia Pacific, reaching 26 percent of the region’s IM user population.
To say that the “Microsoft tent is bare” is just pure idiotic!
Windows Live Messenger is now the best IM software avalible. AIM just can’t compete. Trillian is just rubbish. It’s for the IRC geek who clearly sits at the computer soo much they need all the messengers in one… WHY? I bet you feel so silly now doing this page. You know now that you were wrong!
Microsoft Vista – Windows Live Messenger all the way!
(i bet you all have windows installed… hipacrits!)
eyou are so wrong man, windows live beste IM client, all other clients are just garbage, cna’t compite with microsoft xD. Open Source? lol
You can just download A-Patch and remove all ads from Windows Live Messenger.
Works for me.
hey im just wondering why windows live messenger is not working right now???
Alrite, listen. I’ve personally never lived in the U.S. but i’ve lived all over Europe and Asia and visited probably 50 countries across 5 continents (south americ’a cummin soon) and the only people in the world who use AIM are Americans in America. When they leave america to live somewhere else, they use both AIM and MSN, you dont have a choice if u wanna chat, nobody else uses AIM. However, since u live in america ur argument is generally still valid as most ppl in the US do use AIM. (oh yeh, n sum1 said most MSN users cum from Canada – u ever lived sumwhere else? i bet it dusnt even cum close. Try England and the rest of Europe.)
But thts not the point. Sum1 may hav sed this b4 but one reason msn works so well is tht, if u’ve been usin it from the beggining, it makes everything so easy. Almost everything u need is connected in one package and worked into windows (obviously no good for macs).
Finaly, most users rilli dont car about all tht “nerdy” or whtevr stuff. thay just wanna chat, so what if there’s ads at the bottom of the client, it’s their program, they have a right to, plus, they need to make money from somewhere (though they do have enuff it wud seem). true, the audio convo is bad quality and the webcams dont streem too well, and you cant easily share large files, but picture n stuff are easily shared. The rest is rilli unnecessary stuff that they put in to try to wow you comp. wiz types. I guess u cud say that their real problem is tht they tried to make it more than just an IM service. If they just stuck with the basics like audio, video, and file sharing, they’d do fine with the majority of the world as that’s all they rilli are lookin for.
I’m gunna shut up now b4 i say sumthin thts gunna fire ppl up all over again.
You guys are serious ‘tards. It will succeed because everyone already patches the ads out of it, just like they did with every other msn program. http://www.apatch.org
Get a clue noobs.
i was searching in the web and came across this, yeah i know kinda late but.. my 2 cents:
Oh and did I forget, everyone uses AIM
(i think i got it, i placed a fake arrow probably messing up the html or watever thing sorry!, if the owner cld delete prvious posts, thanks!)
i was searching in the web and came across this, yeah i know kinda late but.. my 2 cents:
Oh and did I forget, everyone uses AIM
nope on my side of the world everyone uses MSN (unless its the self centered american that you meant by ‘everyone’)
One huge barrier for getting all those people to switch over is that they have to create a PassPort account and get a hotmail email account. I don’t want all of that extra junk. If Microsoft just made its messenger email independent, as in I can sign in with a gmail or yahoo account instead of a hotmail email address, this would simplify the process greatly
erm all of us have been able to use many other emails, even local isp email addresses to use msn messenger, like since ?? versions ago.. which era did you come from??
We all know that Microsoft will never release a version of their IM client for an alternate OS
there is a version of MSN for mac, tho definitly not the latest one, but stil usable. (not sure about linux tho)
think about it, if your bakery shop is selling pies that you baked as bestsellers, would you be bothered about other brands of pies for sale??? NOPE
granted that you are already a apple/imac/ipod whatever crap brainwashed, one cant really expect any objective comments from your ‘review’.
get a life u apple people.. every product has its flaws, just because a wayy smaller group of people use your product does not make it godly.
(i think i get it, i made an arrow and it must hav messed with htmls. if the owner could delete my previous posts, thanks! sorry for the spam once again)
i was searching in the web and came across this, yeah i know kinda late but.. my 2 cents:
Oh and did I forget, everyone uses AIM
nope on my side of the world everyone uses MSN
unless its the self centered american that you meant by ‘everyone’)
One huge barrier for getting all those people to switch over is that they have to create a PassPort account and get a hotmail email account.
erm all of us have been able to use many other emails, even local isp email addresses to use msn messenger, like since ?? versions ago.. which era did you come from??
We all know that Microsoft will never release a version of their IM client for an alternate OS
there is a version of MSN for mac, tho definitly not the latest one, but stil usable. (not sure about linux tho)
think about it, if your bakery shop is selling pies that you baked as bestsellers, would you be bothered about other brands of pies for sale??? NOPE
granted that you are already a apple/imac/ipod whatever crap brainwashed, one cant really expect any objective comments from your ‘review’.
get a life u apple people.. every product has its flaws, just because a wayy smaller group of people use your product does not make it godly.
PS im not PRO-Windows either.. i just use it and i dont go around saying its the best
(i think i get it, i made an arrow and it must hav messed with htmls. if the owner could delete my previous posts, thanks! sorry for the spam once again)
i was searching in the web and came across this, yeah i know kinda late but.. my 2 cents:
Oh and did I forget, everyone uses AIM
nope on my side of the world everyone uses MSN
(unless its the self centered american that you meant by ‘everyone’)
One huge barrier for getting all those people to switch over is that they have to create a PassPort account and get a hotmail email account.
erm all of us have been able to use many other emails, even local isp email addresses to use msn messenger, like since ?? versions ago.. which era did you come from??
We all know that Microsoft will never release a version of their IM client for an alternate OS
there is a version of MSN for mac, tho definitly not the latest one, but stil usable. (not sure about linux tho)
think about it, if your bakery shop is selling pies that you baked as bestsellers, would you be bothered about other brands of pies for sale??? NOPE
granted that you are already a apple/imac/ipod whatever crap brainwashed, one cant really expect any objective comments from your ‘review’.
get a life u apple people.. every product has its flaws, just because a wayy smaller group of people use your product does not make it godly.
PS im not PRO-Windows either.. i just use it and i dont go around saying its the best
I agree with you that Windows Live Messenger sucks.
Hey, some comments:
1) It’s really weird how AIM is the standard protocol over there. In most of Europe, the “standard” is MSN (sadly).
2) Since MSN 7.0, the UI is way too bloated – wonder how these guys at Microsoft don’t get this. Most users don’t want extra fancy features that will be of little or no use (like those stupid Winks or Shared Folders for example), they just want simple features that improve usability, like _clean_ tabbed chat windows with full timestamping. Windows Live Messenger seems to be constantly introducing new fancy bloat – “so that plugins and extras wouldn’t be necessary” – how ridiculous.
3) The protocol might not be (officially) documented, but it’s dead easy to reverse-engineer, so a small search will probably show you several sites with documentation. aMSN and Kopete already use a protocol version more advanced than the one shared by Gaim (now pidgin) and Adium. Kopete is Linux-only while aMSN is multi-platform. The reason why Gaim isn’t implementing it is not that it’s a closed protocol. From what I’ve heard, the developer who was dealing with the MSN protocol quit the Gaim team (I think he went to work for Microsoft, but I might be wrong on this)
One thing that should be mentioned is that how many people appearing to use any given protocol depends where you are. It is for this reason that I use Adium. If I were to have one instant messenger for every protocol friends are using then I would have five applications open. The downside for solutions such as Adium and Trillian is that they don’t support all the extra gadgets provided by some of the protocols, then again this may for you be an upside ;)
If few extra things:
– If Windows Messenger Live is anything like MSN, on MS-Windows, then you will surely finds hack to remove the adverts.
– On the Mac, Messenger has a Windows Live badge on it. From what I can tell Windows Live is essential Microsoft passport rebadged.
lol that was hillarious!
Thank god u’r one more fighting those techonology-posibilities-reducers and stealers tha call themselves microsoft.
Windows Live Messenger is simply the best IM client out there in my opinion. Each individual obviously feels differently about things I can understand. The reason I use messenger is that almost everyone I know has it. No one I know uses AIM etc. WLM is unobtrusive and focuses on the chatting aspect, which is the entire point of the application. The fact that almost any email address can be used with the service makes it convenient too. They also don’t blast you with ads. One small ad at the bottom of the main window is nothing. It’s definitely my first choice.
Another failed Microsoft product. After Paul Allen, the idea guy left, Microsoft has made some pretty silly moves. Like Games For Windows Live….
Ugh.
you can remove ads with mess patch and there are extra features with messenger plus (free and not made by MS) and u can write scripts for msn plus.
I have neither a passport nor a hotmail account. I use Live Messenger with my gmail address. And for someone who is willing to split the features of Live messenger between eight other programs, I’m surprised you’d freak out about getting a passport.
As for the banner ad (note the singular), it’s a bit annoying, but nothing to have a heart attack over. It’s at the bottom of the messenger, and give it two days and you won’t even notice it any more.
just like windows * OS.. crash crash crash, unstable, uses too much memory, crash crash crash, restart , crash restart crash. get trillian it does everything.
Ha dude you’re an idiot. The fact that you actually think you’re cool because you “stuck it” to some stupid person that just represents the software instead of someone who wrote it shows you’re just an arrogant prick.
You honestly think Google’s going to win over some chat program? Google has more gmail accounts than hotmail does?
Go take all the time in the world scripting open code for a chat client. Please. Do that so someone can steal your time instead of you babbling your emotional dribble online.
As far as i know the msn service can be acccesed by other clients (adium, trillian, amsn, etc…). On my experience msn is widely used outside the us.
Nice stuff Paul worth reading.. but its not necessary to have a hotmail account to use msn
i personaly use a gmail accound. And ofc not every1 uses AIM for IM
in fact i dont know any1 who uses AIM because me and all my friends uses msn :) oh and u can remove the ads with a patch.
Um …just a point here. You do realise that the MSN (now Windows Live) buddy list is infact able to be accessed by a variety of clients inluding Pidgin – formerly known as GAIM. Not that I’m overly caught up on the old IM’ing fad anyhow.
As to the jab at Vista (it really does boggle the mind how many imbeciles seems to be screaming at it, but anyhow) anyone who is even remotely involved in the graphics-based industries, we really only really have 2 OS’s to choose from – and if some even mentions either GIMP or GMAX I’ll slap them!! – and so long as Steve Jobs and his merry following of iPod clones are shaping Apple, there are many of us who won’t be making that switch any time soon!!
Hi, im taking a guess your american right? because us in canada use WLM. also, theres quite a few programs ton modify WLM to not have adds for example. Just the name a couple, mess patch, stuffplug3 and live plus.
the interface in WLM 9 is da*n ugly too much ads and all that other crap. its just a chat client, i don’t see why people want all those colored nicknames and whatever else. there’s nothing like a clean interface like os x “Microsoft Messenger” with no ads whatsoever.. although i agree that adium is way better, although i don’t use it because i don’t know how to keep chat logs… anyways nice job with the MS rep. and her excuses for ads
The last well-written Microsoft product was Dos 3.3. I rest my case.
Hi dear, I want to chat with windows live messenger by chat group but It is not founding. please send me it.
Just wanted to let you know that although MSN isn’t that popular over there in the USA, it’s the preferred IM in Europe.
:)
I wanted to add my MSN friends to my Trillian app, but it expects a @hotmail.com and on MS website I can only open an account with @live.com
Sounds to me like you just want to make yourself believe it’s not good enough and you’re just being picky.
Hello,
Nobody in Canada or Europe or South America uses AIM, only MSN Messenger.
I don’t even know what AIM looks like
So I think you are incorrect.
Years later — I’m already used to Windows Live Messenger. Now the older one feels old whenever I use it, but it feels like the same old WLM.
um not supporting Microsoft or nothing but you can sign up for wlm account with a gmail and a yahoo email address i have many of both
i CANNOT make a stinkin windows live messenger caues it says it has a stupid error and thats just retarded cause my twin made one i cant freakin make one…….its soooo retarded!!
i typed in yahoo search why windows live one care sucks ass, and it brought me here. Now im here, i would like to vent about how bad this firewall whatever it is sucks. this thing wastes my dvd discs asking to back up new files everyday and it takes 2hr’s a session to complete microsoft sucks but im not in the market for a new comp or os so what do you guys recommend for a firewall that don’t ask you to back up stuff every day and waste discs?
So i gotta ask, now that Messenger is on version 9, and with over 294 million users, do you feel anything about the fact you were wrong? or is it just chalked up to a failure? I’m wondering because your entire argument doesn’t seem like a teenage fit, but rather though out and well put, it’s actually a pity you were completely off the bat since it could have been a great foresight otherwise.
@anon – they still have a long way to go.. _none_ of my friends or anyone I know of in person, and at school, uses it.
HI, I cant under sttand why my windowlive not show me IBox when i clik then he disapper
@paul: you and your friends and schoolmates are not a representative sample. None of my friends use Trillian or AIM or Yahoo, neither did anyone do so when I was in school! Those apps sure have a long way to go.
Welcome to outside the US. Where AIM and, all the open source efforts for Linux tards to use AIM, are meaningless and worthless.
This article is talking as if MSN messenger hadn’t already been around for 6 years.
Although I agree about what you said about the WLM’s cluttered interface,
you have some facts wrong (as of June 2009):
1. You CAN use WLM with Yahoo or Gmail email. No Hotmail needed. Go to Passport.Net and register your email to use with WLM. That’s how I use it.
2. And NOBODY uses AIM protocol. Most people went to the Yahoo or old MSN Messenger camp. AIM/AOL is simply unknown outside the US.
3. Not everybody like tabbed IM interface. It requires an extra mouse movement and click just to get to the correct IM tab.
4. WLM protocol is actually accessible from GAIM/Pidgin/Adium/YahooMessenger and virtually every other IM client.
You are just an average college student and sad Mac fanboy. Get a life.
Your right. I live in the uk and ive never herd of AIM. but i still use hotmail.
I’m always going to use Windows. It’s the worlds largest OS! But there program’s can be a big letdown. I use Mozilla Firefox not IE. I use Adobe Fireworks insted of Paint. The only app i do use is the Messenger.
I have absolutely no idea what you’re on about, but this link came up when I GOOGLED “msn messenger not all the other shit”.
Hey, worse things happen at sea.
So I heard.
You do know that MSN messenger (windows live messenger) holds 61% of the IM population right? while yahoo and aim each hold less than 30%. AIM is only popular in north america… nowhere else. So to say that “everyone” uses AIM is pretty far off.
Jason, this blog was made 4 years ago. Hate to burst your bubble.