Comments on: The Apple TV Tipping Point http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point Tech News, Reviews and Guides Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:29:03 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Thoughts on the AppleTV: Format Woes: tunequest: notes on music and life in the digital age http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-121304 Thoughts on the AppleTV: Format Woes: tunequest: notes on music and life in the digital age Thu, 05 Apr 2007 02:59:21 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-121304 [...] I’m not entirely dissin’ the AppleTV. Paul points out that with the full Mac OS X installed, the thing makes an attractive file/web/torrent box and Apple [...] [...] I’m not entirely dissin’ the AppleTV. Paul points out that with the full Mac OS X installed, the thing makes an attractive file/web/torrent box and Apple [...]

]]> By: Phil http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120745 Phil Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:32:45 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120745 I think the Joost hack is probably the most exciting, if it works. I think this is going to be "the" internet TV to compete with. I'm hoping Apple doesn't get smarter at closing this box off. (I feel like they might let it run, since it will spur interest in Apple products among the more Linux/Unix - prone.) This is definitely good for the development of these new <a href="http://advancedmediacommittee.typepad.com/emmyadvancedmedia/2007/01/over_the_top_fi.html" rel="nofollow">"over the top" television delivery services</a> (to use Shelly Palmer's term). The exciting thing is -- this "revolution" will happen right under the nose of the cable companies. Using their own wires. - Phil I think the Joost hack is probably the most exciting, if it works. I think this is going to be “the” internet TV to compete with. I’m hoping Apple doesn’t get smarter at closing this box off. (I feel like they might let it run, since it will spur interest in Apple products among the more Linux/Unix – prone.)

This is definitely good for the development of these new “over the top” television delivery services (to use Shelly Palmer’s term). The exciting thing is — this “revolution” will happen right under the nose of the cable companies.

Using their own wires.

- Phil

]]> By: Andreas http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120724 Andreas Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:43:08 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120724 While I agree with you Thanasi, I can't see Apple making a DVR any time soon. Why would they make something that renders the tv shows section of the iTS useless? While I agree with you Thanasi, I can’t see Apple making a DVR any time soon. Why would they make something that renders the tv shows section of the iTS useless?

]]> By: Thanasi http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120682 Thanasi Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:23:13 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120682 It might be a tipping point for people like me who like to take things apart for the fun of it and for the learning experience, especially since I have no use for the aTV as it comes out of the box. It would also be nice to have a tiny $300 Apple file server for the house. I think the REAL tipping point for the average consumer will be DVR functionality built in, from Apple. I love my TiVo, but I would replace it with an aTV in a heartbeat, especially if there were no monthly fees. A DVR is something that many average consumers can get on board with. Its a case of a product filling a need, rather than create a need for the product (much like the way cell phones took off). They can see an actual need for in their lives, rather than changing their media consumption habits to accomodate a new peice of technologoy. There are several companies with their hand in the DVR market, and they could all stand to improve. I'd like to see Apple give the DVR market their spin, much in the same way they did the DAP market with the iPod. Perhaps they should get things settled with the iPhone for a while before they enter another new market. It might be a tipping point for people like me who like to take things apart for the fun of it and for the learning experience, especially since I have no use for the aTV as it comes out of the box. It would also be nice to have a tiny $300 Apple file server for the house.

I think the REAL tipping point for the average consumer will be DVR functionality built in, from Apple. I love my TiVo, but I would replace it with an aTV in a heartbeat, especially if there were no monthly fees. A DVR is something that many average consumers can get on board with. Its a case of a product filling a need, rather than create a need for the product (much like the way cell phones took off). They can see an actual need for in their lives, rather than changing their media consumption habits to accomodate a new peice of technologoy.

There are several companies with their hand in the DVR market, and they could all stand to improve. I’d like to see Apple give the DVR market their spin, much in the same way they did the DAP market with the iPod. Perhaps they should get things settled with the iPhone for a while before they enter another new market.

]]> By: Andrew Swihart http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120674 Andrew Swihart Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:04:59 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120674 Right, but is that market really large enough is what I'm saying. I agree there will be a lot of people dissecting and enhancing a lot of stuff on this box, but unless the extra functionality they are enabling is bonehead simple to do and everyone know about it, all the stuff will be relegated to a small horde of talented nerds. Right, but is that market really large enough is what I’m saying. I agree there will be a lot of people dissecting and enhancing a lot of stuff on this box, but unless the extra functionality they are enabling is bonehead simple to do and everyone know about it, all the stuff will be relegated to a small horde of talented nerds.

]]> By: Paul Stamatiou http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120497 Paul Stamatiou Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:38:14 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120497 But then again, a lot of people don't have an additional $300 to get the Mac Mini, which still only sports a lowly 512MB RAM and a weaker GPU (integrated GMA950 IRC). The Apple TV hack is ideal for people that love taking things apart, messing with them, reprogramming things.. ie, hackaday/MAKE-type people. But then again, a lot of people don’t have an additional $300 to get the Mac Mini, which still only sports a lowly 512MB RAM and a weaker GPU (integrated GMA950 IRC). The Apple TV hack is ideal for people that love taking things apart, messing with them, reprogramming things.. ie, hackaday/MAKE-type people.

]]> By: Andrew Swihart http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120476 Andrew Swihart Sun, 01 Apr 2007 18:00:36 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120476 I think continued hacks will open up a market for this similar to how the XBOX was getting snatched up by basically computer geeks who didn't even want to play games on it. I prefer buying products that are made with a specific purpose in mind and execute it to perfection, and I simply don't have time for a lot of the hacks people have made for countless consumer electronic devices out there. I have no idea what effect this will have on sales, but I don't think a whole lot of people are going to get this over a MacMini for running OSX, for the numerous shortcomings mentioned, specifically an older CPU and very meager RAM. I think continued hacks will open up a market for this similar to how the XBOX was getting snatched up by basically computer geeks who didn’t even want to play games on it. I prefer buying products that are made with a specific purpose in mind and execute it to perfection, and I simply don’t have time for a lot of the hacks people have made for countless consumer electronic devices out there. I have no idea what effect this will have on sales, but I don’t think a whole lot of people are going to get this over a MacMini for running OSX, for the numerous shortcomings mentioned, specifically an older CPU and very meager RAM.

]]> By: DaveD http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120461 DaveD Sun, 01 Apr 2007 15:03:10 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120461 "I think this is essentially the tipping point for Apple TV sales...." Stop with the hyperbole. This is no tipping point. Hell, it ain't a tipping point even for you. "I’ll stick with my 24-inch iMac thank you very much." Let's get real, okay? Apple had a pre-order of over 100,000. Of these, how many do you think were bought by people willing to hack it? I'm guessing much less than 5%. And I'm guessing that number will remain just as small. If you understand what the term "tipping point" means, then you should also know that this ain't it. I'm amazed at how people who read Scoble can't keep in mind how bleeding edge he is. (And don't get me going about how non-technical he is too.) My point is this - Apple isn't targeting aTV for the average hacker out there. They are targeting it for the 21,000,000 who bought iPods in calendar Q4 of last year. While these hacks are nice, the most that will come of them in terms of a "tipping point" is if someone develops a peripheral solution that expands it's capabilities. Something that doesn't require opening it up. “I think this is essentially the tipping point for Apple TV sales….”

Stop with the hyperbole. This is no tipping point. Hell, it ain’t a tipping point even for you.

“I’ll stick with my 24-inch iMac thank you very much.”

Let’s get real, okay? Apple had a pre-order of over 100,000. Of these, how many do you think were bought by people willing to hack it? I’m guessing much less than 5%. And I’m guessing that number will remain just as small. If you understand what the term “tipping point” means, then you should also know that this ain’t it.

I’m amazed at how people who read Scoble can’t keep in mind how bleeding edge he is. (And don’t get me going about how non-technical he is too.)

My point is this – Apple isn’t targeting aTV for the average hacker out there. They are targeting it for the 21,000,000 who bought iPods in calendar Q4 of last year. While these hacks are nice, the most that will come of them in terms of a “tipping point” is if someone develops a peripheral solution that expands it’s capabilities. Something that doesn’t require opening it up.

]]> By: Andrew Swihart http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120457 Andrew Swihart Sun, 01 Apr 2007 14:35:13 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120457 Good point Andreas. I think it will be better if they can automate playing videos supported by Perian in the default Apple TV interface. The product as it is good enough if they would just add more codec support, which has been done, but if I recall it's still a pain to get all your videos on there at this point, using dummy files to hack each video. Good point Andreas. I think it will be better if they can automate playing videos supported by Perian in the default Apple TV interface. The product as it is good enough if they would just add more codec support, which has been done, but if I recall it’s still a pain to get all your videos on there at this point, using dummy files to hack each video.

]]> By: Andreas http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120413 Andreas Sun, 01 Apr 2007 12:01:18 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120413 You can get a second-hand Mac mini for the same price, with more power, and more features, no hacking required. It's a nice proof-of-concept, but nothing more. You can get a second-hand Mac mini for the same price, with more power, and more features, no hacking required.

It’s a nice proof-of-concept, but nothing more.

]]> By: Robert Gormley http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120336 Robert Gormley Sun, 01 Apr 2007 06:27:45 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120336 What gets me ... is that many of the same people who have been leading the charge here are also the people who scream bloody murder at OSX86 and similar, who apparently (used to) view the Apple licensing as sacrosanct, and how the hackers getting OSX to work on beige boxes were "harming" Apple. Apparently violating the same licensing to get OSX working on an Apple TV is a-ok now? What gets me … is that many of the same people who have been leading the charge here are also the people who scream bloody murder at OSX86 and similar, who apparently (used to) view the Apple licensing as sacrosanct, and how the hackers getting OSX to work on beige boxes were “harming” Apple.

Apparently violating the same licensing to get OSX working on an Apple TV is a-ok now?

]]> By: Paul Stamatiou http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120332 Paul Stamatiou Sun, 01 Apr 2007 06:21:06 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120332 @Paul D: indeed. "I removed a cpu check and NX usage from the original source and modified some things in memory managment* as well added a SSE3 emulation. The ATV only has a Pentium M which is not capable of SSE3. Also a issue with granularity of TSC was fixed which may lead to a divided by zero at Pentium M processors." http://www.semthex.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=31 @Paul D: indeed.

“I removed a cpu check and NX usage from the original source and modified some things in memory managment* as well added a SSE3 emulation. The ATV only has a Pentium M which is not capable of SSE3. Also a issue with granularity of TSC was fixed which may lead to a divided by zero at Pentium M processors.”

http://www.semthex.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=31

]]> By: Paul D http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120331 Paul D Sun, 01 Apr 2007 06:04:52 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120331 I can't imagine that hacked Apple TV running OS X all that well — Intel OS X needs SSE3 if I recall, and that's probably why they needed "processor emulation". At any rate, no interest here in an Apple TV. Our only TV is an old 14-inch CRT unit, mainly used for Nintendo Wii games, and all actual TV watching gets done on my Macbook Pro with external 24" display. Thank you, FrontRow! I can’t imagine that hacked Apple TV running OS X all that well — Intel OS X needs SSE3 if I recall, and that’s probably why they needed “processor emulation”.

At any rate, no interest here in an Apple TV. Our only TV is an old 14-inch CRT unit, mainly used for Nintendo Wii games, and all actual TV watching gets done on my Macbook Pro with external 24″ display. Thank you, FrontRow!

]]> By: Andre http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120324 Andre Sun, 01 Apr 2007 05:49:26 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120324 Yeah, I caught the link just after commenting. :P Yeah, I caught the link just after commenting. :P

]]> By: Paul Stamatiou http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120323 Paul Stamatiou Sun, 01 Apr 2007 05:33:28 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120323 @Andre: first link > "How to install This is the process that was used to turn the Apple TV into a full blown Mac OS X machine: 1) remove the drive from the Apple TV 2) back up your drive! Make an image of it (see the harddrive upgrade tutorial for this) 3) Connect the drive to a regular Mac (use a Firewire or USB drive dock) 4) Install OS X (Intel version) to the drive (we suggest a slim install - no printer drivers etc.) 5) Boot from this drive, and set it up as you would like it. Make sure you do updates so it is at least 10.4.8. 6) Reboot to your normal OS X install. Ok, you now have your fresh OS X install which will form the base of the customised OS X you will need for the Apple TV. 7) Remove mach_kernel from root of the drive containg the ATV install. 8 ) Replace it with the customised mach_kernel that you’ll find on Hackint0sh.org. 9) Replace /System/Libary/Coreservices/boot.efiwith the same file from your backup of the Apple TV OS drive (OSBoot partition). 10) Run bless: bless --folder=/Volumes/OSBoot/System/Library/CoreServices --file=/Volumes/OSBoot/System/Library/CoreServices/boot.efi --setBoot 11) Delete all the Nvidia kexts (all beginning with NVD, there should be 5) from the target drive (in /System/Library/Extensions). 12) Transfer the drive back to the Apple TV 13) Turn the Apple TV on and cross your fingers. You should boot up into Mac OS X. Woo!" @Andre: first link >

“How to install
This is the process that was used to turn the Apple TV into a full blown Mac OS X machine:

1) remove the drive from the Apple TV

2) back up your drive! Make an image of it (see the harddrive upgrade tutorial for this)

3) Connect the drive to a regular Mac (use a Firewire or USB drive dock)

4) Install OS X (Intel version) to the drive (we suggest a slim install – no printer drivers etc.)

5) Boot from this drive, and set it up as you would like it. Make sure you do updates so it is at least 10.4.8.

6) Reboot to your normal OS X install.

Ok, you now have your fresh OS X install which will form the base of the customised OS X you will need for the Apple TV.

7) Remove mach_kernel from root of the drive containg the ATV install.

8 ) Replace it with the customised mach_kernel that you’ll find on Hackint0sh.org.

9) Replace /System/Libary/Coreservices/boot.efiwith the same file from your backup of the Apple TV OS drive (OSBoot partition).

10) Run bless:

bless –folder=/Volumes/OSBoot/System/Library/CoreServices –file=/Volumes/OSBoot/System/Library/CoreServices/boot.efi –setBoot

11) Delete all the Nvidia kexts (all beginning with NVD, there should be 5) from the target drive (in /System/Library/Extensions).

12) Transfer the drive back to the Apple TV

13) Turn the Apple TV on and cross your fingers.

You should boot up into Mac OS X. Woo!”

]]> By: Andre http://paulstamatiou.com/the-apple-tv-tipping-point#comment-120322 Andre Sun, 01 Apr 2007 05:26:19 +0000 http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/04/01/the-apple-tv-tipping-point/#comment-120322 I won't buy an Apple TV, but it would be a great email machine for my mother. I wonder what it takes to get OS X on there? I want instructions. :p I won’t buy an Apple TV, but it would be a great email machine for my mother.

I wonder what it takes to get OS X on there? I want instructions. :p

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