Detroit Auto Show 2008: State of the Green
As I mentioned in my Detroit Auto Show 2008 post earlier in the week, the overarching theme of this year’s North American International Auto Show was without a doubt going green. Traditionally gas-unfriendly domestic auto manufacturers unveiled hybrid, electric, fuel cell and ethanol concepts left and right. After an interview with GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz, I was able to get an idea of where GM was headed in the future. Overall, there are several viable ways to power vehicles in the future but there is no clear winner so auto manufacturers will be focusing on R&D.
Ethanol & Hybrids
In the very near future, Ethanol-powered (E85 is a mixture of 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) engines will start to penetrate the industry. Something like 5 million GM vehicles capable of running E85 are already on the road. The only problem is producing the ethanol and installing the necessary infrastructure to support it - installing pumps at fueling stations, getting more ethanol-friendly engines on the road and so on. Then there are the people worried about how relying on ethanol might affect crop prices as wheat and corn-based ethanol production could slow down the farming of other crops.
Then there are of course hybrid vehicles which run a small gasoline or ethanol powered engine at high speeds and otherwise rely on electric motors to drive at low speeds. Other fuel saving techniques are employed with hybrid vehicles such as degenerative braking to charge batteries as well as cutting off the engine at idle. Now that hybrids have proven their value in small vehicles, they are making their way into larger vehicles including full-size SUVs and trucks.
Diesel
An interesting thing I discovered at NAIAS was a steady interest in efficient diesel engines. Residing in the United States, I don’t know how well diesel cars will work out. I hardly ever see diesel pumps at most fueling stations. Regardless, the merits of diesel engines are hard to ignore. Audi even released their R8 V12 TDI concept pushing 500BHP, 737 ft. lbs of torque and a great (for a sports car) 23MPG rating.
Audi R8 V12 TDI
Even Mitsubishi is toying with diesel with their Concept-RA: 2.2L clean diesel pushing 201HP, 310 ft. lbs of torque.
Fuel Cell
Like driving around town with 6kg of hydrogen compressed at 10,000 PSI under your seat? Neither do I but hydrogen fuel cell technology is another technology of interest to manufacturers such as BMW with their hydrogen 7 and GM with their Provoq concept. Converting hydrogen to electricity results in only pure water vapor for exhaust - that’s just about as green as you can get. From the infrastructure point of view though, harvesting, transporting and compressing enough hydrogen to power even a portion of the cars in the world will be quite a feat.
The Cadillac Provoq concept also utilizes a plug-in electric system for power.
Plug-ins
If I had to choose one non-fossil fuel propulsion system to power my next car, I would likely go with a plug-in electric system. While manufacturers will still need a few years to work out creating an efficient and safe battery system for these types of vehicles (GM was talking about an alternative to Lithium-Ion batteries that is safer, hence no random explosions a la laptop battery), the advantages are clear. No more driving to the gas station on your way back from work. Just plugin every night in your garage.
Then there’s the issue for garage-less people. What if you live in the city and park in the street? Well, maybe we’ll start seeing curb-side plugin receptacles in a decade.
The plug-in Chevy Volt is one of the most talked-about electric concept. It has a small engine but only for charging the batteries as a backup plan.
Another advantage to electric vehicles is the potential for selling power back to the grid at peak usage times.
Thoughts
I would love to see where plug-in electric vehicles are in 10 years. They seem very convenient. Every morning you can head to work in a car with a full charge. There isn’t much infrastructure to build out for electric vehicles so the only hindrance is developing the perfect battery - one that is reliable enough to maintain capacity after thousands of cycles and safe enough to work in a variety of conditions with varying amounts of rapidly-changing load. Oh and if you work for Google in Mountain View, you’re already good to go. Some of their covered outdoor parking areas have power lines for charging plug-ins.
Personally I will be sticking with gasoline muscle cars for a while. While fast electric vehicles such as the Tesla Roadster do exist, they don’t have the rumble of a high-displacement engine that I’ve grown up with. What about you? Which car technology would you like to see now?
Props to all of the other bloggers I met at NAIAS 2008: John-Francis Musial from Fast Lane Daily, Marc Canter from The Torque Report, Clayton Cornell from Gas 2.0, Joel Williams from Life Goggles, Andrew Liszewski from Oh Gizmo!, Ryan Emge from Saab History, Matthew Keegan from The Article Writer, Isabel Kallman from Alpha Mom, Brian Dooley from Hummer Guy, Drew Johnson from Left Lane News, Hank Green from EcoGeek, Chad Snyder from Hybrid Car Blog, Vincent Nguyen from SlashGear, David Goodspeed from Gear Diary, Philippe Daix from Top Speed, Marty Jerome from Wired Cars, Matt Kelly from Next Gear Show and Jason Mick from DailyTech.
Disclosure: I attended NAIAS 2008 as GM’s guest.
This is a fantastic post, Paul. Extremely well thought-out and informative and well-written. This one will become one of your classics.
I’m envious of you getting to see all the new stuff, though :)
Hi Paul,
I think you are a bit off on the Fuel Cell. A Fuel Cell actually converts fuel into electricity which then powers an electric motor - hydrogen and oxygen (from the air) combine and produce electricity and water (the opposite of what you see in chemistry class when you study electrolysis).
While a fuel cell still requires hydrogen, I believe the “6kg of hydrogen compressed at 10,000 PSI under your seat” refers to the tank of the BMW which actually burns the hydrogen in a modified V12 (it’s really a gasoline/hydrogen “hybrid”).
I used to live in British Columbia and we had hydrogen fuel cell buses (basically electric buses with big fuel cells instead of batteries). I don’t know anything about the GM concept, it might use a fuel cell, but the BMW does not… it’s still a bad-ass fire breathing V12.
-Chris
P.S. I read that you could put a boiling cup of coffee into the BMW’s hydrogen fuel tank and it would still scald your lips if you drank it a few months later (it’s that well insulated to keep the hydrogen in liquid form) - crazy shit.
I hope you moderate your comments, otherwise I just lost the time it took to write one.
If you do moderate, ignore this one and make it known to a poster that their comment is awaiting moderation, otherwise it seems like the comment just disappears.
If you don’t moderate… damn.
-Chris
@Chris - thanks for the catch. you’re absolutely right. I used the wrong word, combustion is definitely not it.
I love auto shows. Can’t wait till they bring the show to NYC, usually around April. Haven’t we been around the electric car business once before, and eventually killed the project due to it own success and greed of the car companies?
I believe the previous generation of the electric cars were well documented too.
I think the bit about Diesel availability is off a bit as well. BP gas stations are big here in Ohio and all of them have diesel pumps in use for vehicles that use the fuel. Now I hardly ever see them at Shell stations or other fuel stations (this is Ohio we’re talking about), but if BP has as large a presence in other states as they do here then finding it shouldn’t be much of a problem…….
I’m excited to see exponential growth in new fuel ideas. Hopefully soon, these new ideas can be implemented into our economy as a full replacement for gasoline.
Until then, I’m gonna keep firing up the Chevy V8 and drooling over the sound.
weird how Diesel is the norm here in the UK and it all seems like a fairly new concept to you. With my PhD being in Diesel Engines i can honestly say you guys have missed the boat, whilst we manage to get diesel engines with fairly good emission standards they don’t have a patch on alternative forms that we are already moving to.
Kinda crazy the worlds ’super power’ is really behind the rest of the world in many technologies
Very informative post. In the future I would consider a plug-in, but for as far as I can see now I too am going gasoline muscle car. My Mustang and I have been through a lot…I am hanging on to that ride for as long as it can move.
I don’t know if plug-ins are going to be a realistic car for the masses unless the batteries can be made really light, really safe, safely disposable, really fast-charging, and if you got some sort of nationwide battery swap program (for anything other than a simple “charge it at night” commuter car). Any car that is “tethered” to your house is going to have limited appeal. A revolutionary battery technology could change this.
Ethanol is a really bad idea. A monumentally bad idea, even. It’s not “green” by any standard, it is more expensive, and it is going to cause the price of food to go up (indeed, it may already have done that).
Hydrogen is quite interesting. The actual burning of the hydrogen is as clean as it gets. Tanks can be refilled. What you need is a reasonably green way of generating it. Electrolysis isn’t very energy efficient, but if we stopped being so paranoid and started building nuclear power plants, I don’t think it would be an issue.
@Mark - your comment made me think about long-distance road trips which can’t be done in electric only cars as charging takes 4-5 hours with most electric vehicles.
Hybrids, especially the Fisker-Karma concept, seem the most practical until a good, cheaper lithium ion battery becomes common for nightly plug-in.
My seven year old Prius has served me well. And typical of Toyota, it just duplicated my previous Camry for seven years with no repair or breakdown service required. (1993-2000 for the Camry and 2001-2008 for the Prius).
If you like the rumble, pay the price. I like quiet cars.
In the Prius, we enjoy the ’stealth mode’ when on pure electric. You learn very quickly to be alert in parking lots as the walkers do not hear the car if on electric power (low speed).
The big problem for apartment and condo dwellers is lack of long extension cords. (ADD SMILEY!)
Also, regenerative braking made me a better driver. The first year I had the Prius, I checked mileage every tank of gas, all ten gallons, and averaged 43 mpg.
Then, I stopped, until last year, when I considered that after six years, it probably was getting near time for new plugs, and such, so I rechecked.
The mileage is now 45 mpg, same type of driving.
The addition of electric cars will be very gradual. If 250,000 electric cars should hit the market next year, what percentage of total vehicles will that be?
Also, the pure electric will hit a very big psychological sales objection, possible nver mentioned by the customer. “What if I run out of electricity? Hybrids do not have this problem, because if I run out of gas, there is always a filling station within ten miles, the electric distance for a Prius.
Al Hodges
El Cajon, CA
“Personally I will be sticking with gasoline muscle cars for a while. While fast electric vehicles such as the Tesla Roadster do exist, they don’t have the rumble of a high-displacement engine that I’ve grown up with.”
I’m glad you think a rumbling motor is more important than cutting emissions.
I love a nice engine as much as the next guy, but come on Paul, seriously?
With that sort of attitude half of the world (mostly the male half) will still be driving V12 gas-guzzling monstrosities for the next 50 years?
Why don’t you start a new company that makes a gas-engine noise, smell & vibration simulation instead?
(Note: if you become a millionaire with that idea I want 10% :)
We will be getting cars that run on compressed air here this year. €1.5 euros to fill up, goes for 200km and can do 110km/h. If you get caught short you could no doubt run a cigarette light powered tyre compressor to top you up until you get to a filling station. Bar the small amount of fuel burnt on the compressor its completely emission free.
Oh and it would be easy for someone to have a small home compressor
@aptmunich - regardless of all the green going on in North America, the pollution from factories in Asia needs to be addressed as well. Getting people to drive hybrids/electric/etc here pales in comparison to the massive amounts of smog there.
@Paul, you should do research before making posts like that. America is and even with hybrid/electric cars will continue to be the worlds biggest polluter.
Maybe a better way of addressing asian pollution is to get America (and others) to stop exploiting it for its manufacturing purposes. Many of the factories built in China have actually been built by american firms, so really the emphasis lies with america to sort itself out at home as well as its manufacturing plants in China.
Of course there are also many native chinese factories too, however lets not forget that these guys are an emerging nation and as such emerging nations are not at the for front of technology or willing to invest in it as they are trying to move ahead as fast as possible to catch up with the very developed nations.
A comment such as ‘well they need to do something too if we do’ is not only typically American but irresponsible of a nation that claims to be the worlds super power! You guys should be setting the trend!
@David - this is why I blog about tech. :-)
good save :)
Great read Paul. Still waiting on those Audi TTS pics… ;)
We wanted to head up as well but could make it.
There are a lot of options out there coming to surface. Obvisouly deisel has been around for some time and its not necessarily new but there is a ton of new tech behind it and they are extremely efficient. Running a biodiesel blend will allow you to get away from foreign oil but not 100%. Go SVO and you will be riding free forever. (As long as gov’t doesn’t butt-in)
All these tech’s are great and which one will end up a winner?
One thing I believed in not only for housing but auto is using the natural resources that are abundant today and will not see a hit. This would be the Sun. It’s there, it’s free and it’s always available.
On the space up! blue from Volkswagen, the roof is made up of solar panels.
I know this isn’t Detroit related but in terms of the “green” discussions, we are in a great turning point within the automotive industry.
- ©
Paul - great to meet you in Detroit. Interesting post, I too found it intriguing that only now diesels are becoming more popular in American cars. They claim it’s due to the incredibly tough emissions laws in California, but I can’t believe that, a) it’s taken so long b) that California would stop the development for the whole of the country and c) diesel is already used in millions of trucks (that admittedly have different emission standards - I think).
The variety of alternative fuel solutions at the show was great, and while it all has a lot more to do with selling more cars than being environmentally responsible, the end result is still the same :)
@oneightturbo - The Fisker Karma has solar panels on the roof, though I was surprised other concepts didn’t.
Have to say Paul, “I will be sticking with gasoline muscle cars for a while. While fast electric vehicles such as the Tesla Roadster do exist, they don’t have the rumble of a high-displacement engine that I’ve grown up with.” annoyed me a little bit too.
You’re a really smart guy but you might want to read up on what we’re doing to the planet, when you start getting into it, it is really quite scary and sadly America is the biggest problem, yet nobody seems to be doing anything about it.
Just wanted to say that. Love the blog keep up the good work :)
It’s sad to see so much development in fields that aren’t that good. Ethanol creates more pollution than gasoline, and hydrogen is a complete waste. It’s so light it floats out of our atmosphere, and using electrolysis to get it is a huge waste of energy. Electric cars on the other hand a rather efficient as is, and more research could easily help that increase even more.
Given that most of the electricity in the US is generated using fossil fuels, isn’t it misleading to say a plug-in car has a ‘non-fossil fuel propulsion system’? ;-)
Hydrogen won’t make a meaningful difference to transportation, either for fuel cells for for direct combustion (a la BMW). Without trying to squeeze the reasons why into this text box, download my PDF on the topic at http://www.stephenfleming.net/filesharing.html
Trivia:
During the first third of the 20th Century, ladies did not like gasoline engine cars. Until 1912, they were dangerous to start by cranking. Two ladies continued driving electric cars into the thirties because gasoline cars were dirty, smelly, and noisy. One was the wife of the President of Packard, the other Clara Ford, whose husband built the Model T.
Now, 100 years later, we are starting to appreciate their wisdom.
Al Hodges
@Stephen - great slides.. brings up more than a few points against Hydrogen for such widespread public use. I never knew the molecules were small enough to go through most metals. learn something new every day. :-)
Hey Paul,
Great article. Your doubts about diesel engines are well founded. You’re right that here in the U.S. you don’t see diesel pumps too many places except for truck stops and similar places. But, a growing trend and popularity that Detroit probably would never tell you about is Biodiesel. It’s basically diesel fuel that is made from waste vegetable oil or (less commonly) animal fats. Biodiesel has a growing enthusiast population, and you’re gonna see more and more of it as petroleum prices keep going up and up.
I happen to run a little website on the side called Find Biodiesel which is a Google maps mashup biodiesel station locator.
Nate
Paul, thanks for the mention. It was good to meet you at this year’s show too.
Two things I like about current hybrid technology is that the cars are nice looking and they can still access a lot of power when needed, at least with GM’ Mode 2 technology.
The next few years should be very interesting from a development and release standpoint.