I visited the same area, that poor Microsoft tent, it was so bare and empty. Nothing beats open source and millions of clients, Microsoft should stick to operating systems and their DirectX, Windows Messenger to me is a 4mb waste of ram that could be devoted to something else, like Folding.

Thats awesome stuff Paul, personally I’m a trillian fan myself, but used to use GAIM. Way to stick to to Microsoft, I hope one day I have that same chance!

Nice one Paul! So much for Microsoft trying to get into the Web 2.0 movement with their so-called “Live.com”. Not only are they late, they just don’t get it. Pretty sad case. :P

I much prefer Jabber (GTalk uses the Jabber protocol), but AIM is definitely my primary IM service because everyone I know uses it. I like how Jabber can be encrypted (and is in most setups), so no one on a poorly secured wireless (Starbucks, my campus wireless network, etc) can watch what I type, it’s a federated protocol (I’ve got my own domain and use it as Jabber ID to talk to GTalk users, which rocks), and it’s an open protocol like you said- so any client can add support for it.

I disagree. Even if I conceded that Messenger was a flaming piece of garbage, it’ll still succeed when MS drops it includes it in every consumer OS that they sell.

You brought up some valid points, but my how many of those are points that our mothers would care about? I know mine will just blissfully use whatever’s in front of her, which is a safe bet for Microsoft.

I’m not saying that other protocols/client won’t succeed… I’m just saying that MS is not going to fail.

This reminds me of the time some Jehovah’s witness’ knocked on the door of my Greek Orthodox priest (who’s an Archimandrite), and he answered the door in full vestments….they were speechless. It wasn’t even worth trying.

Great article, Microsoft just isn’t getting it. Although, I’ll probably end up working for them in the future… I have to say sometimes they come up with the stupidest things. Theirs three messengers that currently rule the market, yahoo, msn, and aol. I don’t think theirs a chance of W.L. making any progress on changing that. The fact that they don’t support iTunes song titles in the profile, that’s like a major boo-boo on their part, almost everyone has an iPod now days so iTunes is right their with them. Even if they don’t have an iPod the fact that Quicktime comes with iTunes, most people like the iTunes interface over windows media.

Meh, I’ll stick with Trillian

Heh, I had a few good laughs reading this Paul. Good stuff.

However, I have to point out a few things. First off, let me first come out and say that I myself, am a Windows user, but by no means a Microsoft fanboy. I’m just gonna drop some point form notes so I don’t end up writing a novel.

Windows Live Messenger is basically MSN Messenger 8. I don’t really see much of a difference at all. You can still use Gaim, Trillian and Adium if you use WLM - I was using Adium on a Mac and switching back and fourth up until about 3 weeks ago.

It’s already hugely successfully. I live in Canada and don’t know a single person who uses AIM. I think most of the reasoning behind this is because of the name - I don’t know many Canadians who are stoked to use something that blatantly American.

You don’t need to have a Hotmail account to use it. You can use any email address to get an MSN Passport. Mine is a personal domain of mine.

That woman was so full of shit when trying to justify the ads. I’ve checked a couple times while reading your article and saw ads for Dell, date.ca and Lavalife.

The Share Folders thing is complete garbage. The other night I was chatting with a friend of mine and wanted to send them an album. I remembered about the shared folders and figured I’d try it out. I thought it would be something like giving friends access to certain folders. I was going to give my friend access to my music directory so he could just grab what he wants. Not the case. You have a folder for each user that you have to drop files into to share with them. So if I wanted to share an album with 3 friends, I’d have to copy and paste it into 3 separate foders.

Lastly (I promise!) it does work with iTunes and Winamp (maybe more, that’s all I’ve tested) as well as WMP out of the box.

Ok, I’m done here. If you get a bunch of people asking for beta invites, I have 6 available. Feel free to toss them my way.

Also… I don’t think anyone likes ads in their IM client, espeically the ones that make noises and suck you your speed just to load a little crappy movie no-one wanted to see.

Hmmm, interesting reading. Leaves me slightly worried about the future of MSN on Mac. All my friends here in the UK use MSN and I am resorted to using Adium (no bad thing) so I can IM with them, but it sounds like even that may not work in the future, how am I going to convince my friends to switch to AIM and the Macs are better if they can’t talk to their friends. grrr!!

Paul. Not only are they stupid. Their employees do not know the products. First thing I can see is a patch can remove the ads, albiet an unofficial one it still does the job. Also you can use a GMail account as a .NET passport, you just have to register it on Passport.net.
The protocal is open. GAIM and many other third party IM clients can use it. And for the plug-in subject MSN Plus has always been made by a third party to add many features. Here in the U.K. (and possibly the rest of Europe) MSN has the largest market share of IM networks and so it does not usually get a mass exodus away from it’s annoying ads and stupid tabbed things, despite many of my geek friends and I attempting to persuade the masses.
Today I reformatted my PC and instead of downloading MSN I got GAIM. It’s working out pretty well so far, I do miss putting the buddy window into my system tray though. I’m thinking that I have left behind the MSN messenger client, third party from here on in for me!

In the past that hasn’t prevented Microsoft from being successful (profitable). I think this article should be relabeled why Microsoft Live Messenger is not cool.

So I’m going to have to agree with Ken.

this is the prefect example as to why microsoft is total crap. MAC OS X ROCK!!!!!

paul tears it up again!

there is a little more to think about here, the average user. i work for a well known “web shop” and I’ve seen co-workers come in the door set up AIM and use it. Ads kickin left and right etc. They are not going to get the hacks to disable ads, disable logs, sounds, etc etc. These are the ones who are target users.

I think Windows IM is bloated to hell along with AIM. I want to chat, transfer some files bout it. No tickers, no ads, no movies..

I will give it a few +’s. If your running XBOX LIVE it’s great! MSN spaces etc. MS has been doing a good job of intergrating thier offerings within the live.com realm. The new mail is nice! Live.com works. The RSS within it is rather nice. Is it the best, no. I’ve been using IE7 and am very happy with the beta. To be honest, no issues. Again, the RSS is working, tabs etc.

I’ve been a GAIM user forever now. On OSX i use Adium. BTW, I cant stand iChat ;)

Now, I just need Kubuntu on this damn partition ;)

Haha talk about evil. Imagine what it would be like to be that representative from Microsoft. Knowing that your product lacks functionality and is unattractive, you have to convince a know-it-all that it is superior.

I agree with Ken though, that MSN Messenger is really successful. Even though its success is slowly falling, it is nevertheless the most popular IM (in Canada at least, like Matt said, no one uses AIM here).

It’s impossible software that will have enough features for some people, or too many features for others.

While the story was fun to read, I’m not sure if that’s “exactly” how the conversation went — especially since Microsoft DOES have a client for the Macintosh.

Great article, a surgical strike like only a geek can perform.

However, you said “nobody uses MSN”. I’m sure you mean nobody in America

I wonder if Scoble will read or respond to this? It’ll be interesting to hear what he has to say. I hear ya points loud and clear and they were excellent. I’d love to have been a fly in that tent to see how the lady sweated during the conversation!

those 29 Million MSN users are largely from Canada (obviously not all of them) as for some reason MSN is to Canadian teens what AIM is to American teens

I don’t think it is ‘better’. It looks ‘cleaner’ than 7.5. The protocol still works for Gaim. But GAIM will not be able to implement the shared folder. MessengerPlus! might not work anymore. Damn I’ll miss those sound plugins during video chats. Bummer.

But why will it rule? Just think of the amount of people who still use Norton. Because they want to plugin, start and not that much later someone will send them an invitation or say ‘gotta have this one MSN8 so rocks’. Bingo MSN8/WLM is installed.

But I totally agree with you.

Yeah, I kept Windows Mess Live installed for only a few days after I joined the beta. I use gaim to connect to all other networks and use aim for all my personal use with friends and everything. I personally think MS Messenger has declined over the years overall.

I’m not surprised.. The job of these reps are to harass people and try to convert the innocents by signing a contract with the devil ;) Ads sponsered apps are doomed to fail.. At least where I’m concerned.

If I look at teens, I’m not so sure that It will… Most of them don’t really realize the implacation of using free MS apps..

Kiltak[Geeks Are Sexy] Tech. News

I use Live Messenger on my Win Pc and I agree with what Matt Brett said above. I have found that does work good in some ways but I do agree with you though Paul that the UI sucks. File transfers however seem to work Ok as I used that for the first time the other day when I was chatting with Bryan at Avalonstar. All in all I will keep my Mac and Adium. Excellent piece Paul.

Well, this was indeed an interesting read. Much of what I read saying that this and that can’t be done was funny, cause I have done a lot of those this and thats.

1. WLM does work with iTunes. I use it everyday.
2. Ads can be removed with this great patch. http://apatch.ikhost.com/ and it can remove a heap of other annoying features.
3. “Everyone Uses AIM” made me laugh. I don’t use it and don’t know anyone else that does. lol.
4. You don’t need a hotmail email address to sign up. I’m using an email from my own domain and never had a problem.

That’s my 2 cents worth. I hope it has cleared up a few things.

Chris.

Come on Paul, I disagree. All the people I know use MSN, in fact everyone in the country use MSN and with my experience with US citizens, a lot of them use MSN as well. I’d like to rubbish your claim that EVERYONE uses AIM, not the case, it’s total garbage and installs spyware on your computer. The program itself does nothing and Windows Messenger works just dandy. The ads are nothing to bawl about, no more intrusive that the ads you get in Gmail so I see this as a minor grievance. The sharing folders and file transfers? That’d I’d like to rubbish too, I’d just use box.net much like you would.

I’m trying to get people to use Google talk as well. Your “skype, anyone?” comment gains a no way no how from me, that program is also rubbish. The most succesful IM client may well be MSN because of its integration with the Windows OS and you know that Windows isn’t dying down anytime soon, so regardless of what you or any critic says WLM is here to stay. To put this into perspective for people, it’s like the game “50 Cent: Bulletproof”. The game got poor reviews all around yet it went platinum, i.e sold a million copies meaning there will most definately be a sequel. Windows Messenger is like the cool IM client, may not be the best in terms of ads or the lack thereof or even in having super fast transfer speeds, but it functions and the UI for the everyday user is pretty intuitive Again, from your uber 1337 geeky standpoint, I can understand why you want to call it a failure, but in no way will it fail, it’s like the videogame or song that is really horrible, but people like it anyway only in this case the song/videogame ain’t half bad.

As to the lady, she’ mixed up, I’ve been able to login to MSN via GAIM and the network has to be open, how else are we logging on to MSN via http://www.meebo.com? Also the community is getting something to do because we can now pretty easily make bots for MSN, something you couldn’t rally do before so that lady sounds like she didn’t have a clue.

The IM I think that will be second place is Google Talk, from my geeky perspective, it’s just marvelous, plus the integration with Gmail where people don’t always need to Google Talk client is pure genious on Google’s part. It’s on of those “Why didn’t I think of that” things. I’m trying to get my friends to use Gtalk as well but moving over will be a problem. In short, you’re wrong Paul :) MSN will succeed, like it or not.

I may have some error somewhere in my giant blurb just now, oh and you DON’T need a hotmail or .NET account for WLM, I’m pretty sure of that, in the options you can have it so you log into messenger with any email address you want be it yahoo, gmail, whatever. They just push for that so it checks your email, all about integration, friends. Not unlike Gtalk, but with Gtalk you HAVE to use Gmail, so in that regard MSN is more accomodative.

I use MSN messenger right now but the ads and all the bloat drive me nuts. Microsoft really don’t seem to get it. They always think they know best.

Hmm “does this run on OSX? yes it runs on windows xp” lmao that was just to funny. What Mac users not a concern? well the hell with them too. bahh they give me a pain.

Only cause I respect you Paul, I’m not cussing up a storm for your post :)

No man, not a different protocol, the only difference between Windows Messenger (the one that comes default with XP) MSN Messenger 7.5 and the Beta are aesthetic, that’s all. I’ve jumped from the Beta back to 7.5, the latest update for me was horrible, changed my display picture every time I logged in, would disconnect just like that, but the final pics I saw of the final version make me salivate.

http://www.livesidenet should have them

Windows messenger is a good service and everybody i know has it why do people have to say its not going to succeed come on please probably for people lthat know about computers and all that technical stuff but the truth is that 95% of the people don’t care about all the geek features all they care is for chatting that’s it. That’s why right now Msn messenger is so popular. Wake up people.

I think in between all that garbled text, Rt said some truth there. :D

I have to agree completly agree with Paul’s statments reguarding this release of Messenger. I have beta tested the last 3 versions of the software and the main UI is huge! It is a little slicker but not that great. The only way around the ads that I have found is to block the large ad networks in your Windows hosts file. the area is blank but you can’t hide the stupid thing. I guess they want ot have a bunch of crap in it that only 13 year olds would enjoy. I use all my IMing on OS X anyways so I won;t be using the app once the beta ends. What would be rally nice is if iChat wokred on more protocals. Audium and Proteus are nice as well if you are on lots of IM networks like I am. Anyways, keep up the great work Paul and I like the new theme! :)

Excellent article Paul, I love your insight and reviews. I included a couple of quotes from your post in a recent post on the Microsoft Weblog.
(http://www.microsoftweblog.com/2006/04/05/can-microsofts-messenger-catch-up/)

I have used both Windows Live Messenger and MSN Messenger. You only need a Passport account, which doesn’t have to be a hotmail address. I personally use my Yahoo e-mail address as my passport user name.

Where were the tents? Skiles Walkway?

Great article (and kudos to the comments!), but flawed at times.

1. box.net? Haven’t heard about it before, but already signed up!

2. What AIM? As far as I know, AIM (yes, the client AND protocol) is mostly used in the US and basically absent everywhere else. MSN is sadly the most used client here in Norway, but I use iChat with Jabber so I have the other networks available there too. Btw, for those using iChat, take a look at Chax which is a great addon to iChat.

3. As mentioned several times, you can use MSN with any email address and this has been available for years. It was only in the beginning of the MSN services that you were bound to using a hotmail address.

Clarifications:

1. Messenger can only be used with a Microsoft Passport account. However, *any* email address can be registered as a Microsoft Passport, not just Hotmail accounts.

2. Sharing folders is like file transfers, but on steroids. It not only allows you to drag and drop files to share with friends, but also keeps folders in sync between 2 people. It’s a different sharing model. ALso, file transfers are sent securely peer-to-peer if a connection can be made p2p. Sending files SECURELY peer-to-peer is a huge differentiator and I challenge anyone to argue otherwise.

3. Questioning the elegance or beauty of the UI is a non-starter. This is completely subjective. It obviously cna’t be that bad, considering there are nearly 100M users, no? I don’t know where the 29M number is coming from that was stated in earlier comments.

4. Open up your mind beyond the USA market. MSN Messenger does just fine overseas, and is dominants markets in Asia. For example, China has 1.3B people whereas USA Is at 295M. If you’re going to talk about market dominance, at least qualify it with the market you’re discussing. You obviously can’t be talking about worldwide market share or dominance.

5. There is intense focus on JABBER and open IM protocols. When’s the last time that your non-engineering friends asked about open IM protocols? They just want to chat with their friends and don’t spend time debating in blogs and chat boards about the merits of different IM protocols :)

Hi everyone. I apologise in advance if someone has already mentioned this. But the comment in the article about MSN Messenger running on Mac OS X is untrue.

There already exists an MSN Messenger on the Mac platform which works both on PowerPC and Intel architectre (through Rosetta emulation).

A new version of MSN Messenger or Live Messenger (whatever you wanna call it - it’s all the same) is on its way which will be Universal binary supported.

I’m from the UK and literally no one I know uses AIM. I even installed it once and my computer was AOLed up to a point which broke my spirit and I uninstalled it.

I live in a town of around 20,000 people and about 90% of teens here (13 - 17) use MSN regularly or have it installed it on their computers (they can operate it without being very computer literate).

MSN messenger and Live messenger beta, which I have installed, does everything we need. I don’t think it’s for the more tech-savvy people. I use GTalk as well, but I only have around 10 contacts, compared to in MSN/Live where I have 400.

If Microsoft just made its messenger email independent, as in I can sign in with a gmail or yahoo account instead of a hotmail email address, this would simplify the process greatly.

You can create an account for MSN Messenger that is not @msn.com or @hotmail.com. I use my gmail account for all of my MSN account needs. When you setup your passport account you just use that e-mail instead. So, I think that the above quote is very misleading, if not inaccurate.

Even more so since the 1st step in the passport registration process asks if you want to use your already existing email or create a new one (with hotmail of course).

Sorry, but you came off as a huge jerk to that woman. She is only an employee of the company, she isn’t evil. When you say “At this point, the Microsoft lady was starting to get on my nerves” it seems an awful lot like you would have been getting way more on her nerves… In fact, your whole post stunk of ego and condescension… but anyway…

*Eeveryone* I know up here in Toronto uses MSN as their IM client. Not just for chatting with friends, but for communicating with coworkers/clients. I imagine that there are probably some large pockets of MSN users in the states as well.

“We all know that Microsoft will never release a version of their IM client for an alternate OS”

I hate to break it to you on that one, but they did release a version of MSN messenger for OSX a while back, so I see no reason why they wouldn’t eventually do it again.

-Matt

I’m not a huge fan of MSN Messenger but as many of my friends use it I came to learn that differently from what many people believe you don’t have to use a hotmail account to have a Passport. You can use any e-mail you want, in the installation process they just ask you if you don’t want to create a hotmail and use it, but you can easily check the box below that gives you the option to use any other e-mail.

You mentioned that everyone uses the aim protocol. That only applies to America. The rest of the world seems to like MSN. I’m from Trinidad and it’s all my friends use. I have friends from other places (St. Kitts, Dominica, Spain, Japan, Korea) and that’s all they use. I use Gaim so I could care less.

I think what will end up annoying me more than anything with the new Live messenger is that all my friends on MSN will keep trying to get me to use all the bloated features that will undoubtedly be included - for example “So and so sent you a wink/nudge/kiss”. I have an irrational hatred of these and I bless Adium that it can’t display them.

I’m slightly confused - is the new Live beta a completely different protocol? If it isn’t then when my friends “upgrade” it won’t affect me, but if it is then that would suck. From reading the discussion it sounds as if the protocol is the same and the woman misundestood, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Especially in the UK, we have to live with MSN. There’s no point in not having an account since everyone else has it - the only contact I have on Gtalk is my boyfriend so that we could talk to each other without having to log on to MSN. Again, thank heaven for Adium.

Check it out… looks like developers will be able to create plugins for Windows Live Messenger. I’ve actually ditched all other protocols in favor of MSN. Why? It works well with Windows, and since I’m a Windows Admin - I pretty much live in a Microsoft world.

http://www.liveside.net/comments.php?catid=2&shownews=168

Omg, Some of the stuff you said you had no idea what your talking about!

First off, you can use any email you want, just a simple sign up with your email and your done, I use my Gmail account with MSN MEssenger. Next…The interface is great its not all BIG like you said!…Secondly advertisements at the bottom? who cares? every IM has it, just ignore it…I say alot of your comments were good but not true. The File sharing I dont use but you can use both either file sharing or just regular, and the file sharing is good for sending multiple files also if you need to logoff, and log back on it will go back to its percentage…like torrent?

very well written article Paul, but unfortunately i found it to be quite biased. i work at a position where i soon am going to be competing directly with MSN within the MIM area, and i have accumulated a substantial understanding of Microsoft’s growth, current status, strategies and where it’s headed in the past couple of years. Microsoft might not be dominating the market you are in, which is the tech-oriented niche youth market of the US where alternative open source/ open protocol systems are hip and everybody is keen on developing their preferred environment themselves, but the truth is that your world is a teeny tiny one when compared to the Windows Live target market. they are not interested in impressing people like you or making you happy, because the majority of the world does not share the same interests or knowledge. there are basic needs that Microsoft intends to satisfy with its products, and those are the needs of the following types of people, from all 7 continents - not just northern america where the IP infrastructure is utilized at its utmost capacity:

- average white collar professional who utilizes little more than basic office and IP tools on his/her PC
- the housewife who uses a computer to do very basic tasks such as word process / listen to music / search for recipes or maybe set up her own little website if she’s a bit more advanced ito/ technology
- students who are not even remotely interested in hardware/software/etc. and freak out even if they hear any jargon regarding these topics
- elementary & highschools which need a no-hassle easy to use environment without any customization and an easy access to tech support

the list goes on and on, but i guess you get the picture. their target is not people like you, it’s your grandpa or your 12 year old sister or your pet monkey! Windows Live is a concept through which Microsoft intends to diffuse into the average people’s lives, not the 0.1% communications freaks such as yourself. And in the meantime they diffuse their happy colorful advertisements into these lives as well! why not make money in the process while you can, right? it’s part of the company’s business model, and giving a hard time to their outdoor stand representative will not make any difference. She was probably just a “presentable” woman who works for a mobile marketing agency, and will be promoting an entirely different product for a different company the next day. It might be a much better idea to send this above article to real company representatives. Otherwise, the people reading your blog and hearing you ideas will only be people like you! unless you only want an ego boost, this won’t be very beneficial for anybody…

Windows Live is “all in one”, and it is an act on Microsoft’s side in order to protect its user community of hundreds of millions of people. today you don’t need to worry about whether your uncle in Bolivia or India or Turkey can use MSN, because 99% chance he will have access to an ordinary PC (if not at his house or work, there will at least be an internet cafe nearby) with some version of Windows OS installed, and will be able to use MSN (whether it be MSN Live or the prehistoric msn2.1) on at least a 16kb dial-up connection. get the picture? do you think such a person will even know about AIM or Gaim or Audium or whatever you and your friends use? I doubt it… Even if they did know about it, what good would it do to them? No matter how annoying the Microsoft lady was at the stand that day, she did tell you the truth about MS not being worried about the Mac users (or any other OS for the time being), because -like it or not- they are still a monopoly in this business. The mere reason companies like Google are so open and so friendly and so great right now is because they have to be that way in order to compete with this worldwide giant. they form alliances, they welcome people to access their resources, develop new applications and patches, unite their communities, etc etc… Why? because otherwise they don’t stand a change against Microsoft. it’s the basic rule of life: if you’re not strong enough to fight against the world on your own, then cooperate with all the little people and fight for the united benefit of the little people. Do you think they would still be the same way if they were in Microsoft’s shoes? Probably not… because they’d have no reason to.

I am not sure whether the Windows Live project is going to be successful, but Steve Ballmer seemed quite sure during his little show at the 3GSM Conference in Barcelona. With this project Microsoft is not only challenging the computer and/or IP world, but it is challenging the mobile operators and service/application providers as well. it’s a big move, and smart people like yourself should see the bigger picture.

Can Some one tell me how can i fix my 7.5 messenger everytime that I sign in does let me see who is online feel free to send me an email… If u have anything to help me please… I will be more than happy. Thank You so much…
My email is
emmanuel_pr18@hotmail.com

Thanx
and i hope that some one can help me with my problem

ya windows is terrible, i only have a dual boot so that i can use dialup with my winmodem. i tried windows live messenger and again terrible, crappy colour scheme, huge icons, too many ads, and all around a pain in the ass. i’ll just stick with aMSN and GAIM for fedora. 84% of instant messaging in canada is through msn, sad but true.

microsoft’s aim is not to have the “best” by any standard or preference IM client. their aim is quirte simple, microsoft knows that 99% (if not more) people really have no idea when it comes to using a computer. those people will be running a windows OS with probably no knowledge that other IM clients than the one installed with windows exists.

i use MSN becuse everyone i know uses it so i have no choice if i want to communicate with them.

WLM i am sure will be by no means a failure because the average user doesnt know any better than using an IM client that uses 40meg of ram running idle

That sounds seriously like a very bad step for Microsoft to take. Don’t they realise that closing their coee off even more than before is the exact opposite of what they need to be doing to survive in the ever changing market??

The MSN for Mac that currently exists in version 5 but its the most unstable app I have ever had the misfortune to use, hence why I prefer to use AdiumX.

It would be nice to think that Microsoft would be updating it to the same standard as their Windows version, but that would be wishful thinking. I half expect her to say “OS what?” when you asked her if Live ran on is…lol

hehe, I must say that I have been using msn8 or Windows Live messenger as they call it since the first week of the beta (I know someone who knows a guy who has this friend who knew how to crack the msn8 so it thought it was going though the msn7 protocall so that it worked ;) ).

Now a few words: Yes you can use a gmail account or yahoo email account to log into msn you just need to regester it with the msn service… i cant remember how to do this but im sure google will help… also I have never used the shared folders option, as you say send file is good enough and anything large can be either ftp’d or torrented. Personally I would rather use a IM client that was universally applicable to all os’s with webcam support so I can chat with everyone. I hear there are IM clients out there that can login to many different IM protocalls such as AIM, YIM and MSN to name the main three; and indeed I have attempted to use one of these programs but the UI was so utterly crap that I decided to go back to msn.

For me MSN works, still, i dislike the advertising (however I have manged to hack it so they now dont appear), I have no use for the shared folders, the lack of formatting features annoys me and I cant share webcam with my friends using macs - also the 40MB of ram to run the program is a total burden… well not with 2GB of system ram maybe but its still a waste of resources.

I like pretty UI’s this is why I love apple (even if I cant afford one at the moment) I have tried one of the IM clients that logs into all the clients but it was ugly and uninstalled in a seccond.
Also Everyone I know uses MSN, and the few people on macs I know have YIM so sharing webcam is easy if not a burden to have two clients open.

When my next new pc purchase comes along due to vista I shall probably be converting fully over to apple buying a macbook or similar and using my current pc as file server/games machine :)

[quote]2. Sharing folders is like file transfers, but on steroids. It not only allows you to drag and drop files to share with friends, but also keeps folders in sync between 2 people. It’s a different sharing model. ALso, file transfers are sent securely peer-to-peer if a connection can be made p2p. Sending files SECURELY peer-to-peer is a huge differentiator and I challenge anyone to argue otherwise.[/quote]

HAH! P2P (peer-to-peer) is not a secure source to transfer files, it never has been. If you’re worried about secure tranfers you better start looking into VPN solutions.

You can use any email for your passport. I use my home email address (my own domain which I’m sure you can see as the blog admin) to use Live Messenger. With the Mess patch, you can remove all the advertisements and a whole lot else. It makes it more awesome than it already is.

Here’s the mess patch:
http://www.bigblueball.com/forums/local_links.php?action=jump&id=48&catid=3

To concede though, AIM usage is high, so I run Trillian and Live Messenger in parallel.

Thats why you get patches and remove the ads! and all the BS you dont need

i totally agree here. what makes it worse though, is not the fact they are filling their messenger with crap, but the fact half the stuff in it doesnt work. Buddy icons often do not appear, interactive experience with the games and things are often broken and files transfers are just slow and rarely ever complete. I have a 10mb connection, yes not the fastest, but a 4kbps transfer speed is not impressive at all! I think its not just the client that needs an overhall, its their whole network, so microsoft, fix it!

I’ll tell you why it will succeed: large customer basis.

I just got it- might make lots of changes to it for fun until I get bored of the garish colours and lack of actual new features…

LOL, this “won’t success” stuff means they got 8 million users in 2 weeks in beta state…

By the way, no one is using msn means 200 million users…

And they don’t get web 2.0? They made web 2.0. Microsoft created ajax in 1998, ie was the first (and for years the only) browser that supported ajax…

Open source is 5-10 years behind them in general.

I use MSN Messenger/Windows Live Messenger because:
1) Here, it’s what EVERYONE uses.
2) You can disable the ads by messing with the hosts file
3) It fits in and looks alright (as in not too different from everything else here on my XP desktop)

I’d like to replace it but I simply haven’t found a *reliable* client for Win XP that:
1) Connects to MSN
2) Does buddy icons, nicknaming and personal messages
3) Makes file transfers work (all the time)
4) Works with MSN webcam and speech
5) Runs the MSN games.

I’ve tried Gaim, Jabber gateways, etc. Yet, none have worked satisfactory.

I like Google Talk but nobody uses it.

Here’s the situation. Skype video is absolutely unreliable. iChat is great (my wife has a MacBook), but AIM and firewalls and routers is a pain, and you can’t (out of the box) initiate the connection from the Mac side without poking ports and such. MSN Live Messenger’s video protocol is solid, and reliable, and there are no ports to change, nothing.

It commodity stuff to me. I don’t care what software I use. And I really want to (out of the box) be able to video call between Mac (iChat) and Windows (whatever software). But the software has to be solid, reliable.

Any other options I’m missing - and mind you, I don’t have the time to get out my tools and open the hood on this stuff.

Kirk

Re: Al.
lol. Holy blinded microsoft fanboy, batman!

Al sez: “And they don’t get web 2.0? They made web 2.0. Microsoft created ajax in 1998″

Surely you know you’re making this sound like something it’s not, don’t you? A discussion of Web 2.0 doesn’t involve Microsoft, let alone a claim that “they made it.” Dunno what sort of kool-aide you were sipping there, but it must be strong stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2.0
“Many find it easiest to define Web 2.0 by associating it with companies or products that embody its principles. Some of the more well known Web 2.0 entities are Google Maps, Flickr, del.icio.us, digg, last.fm, and Technorati.”

Hmm, what about all those cool Microsoft Web 2.0 projects? You know the websites I mean, like…… er…. ah.. yeah. Ok.

Al sputters “Microsoft created ajax in 1998″

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX
“Ajax or Asynchronous JavaScript and XML, is a web development technique for creating interactive web applications…”

“Although the term “Ajax” was coined in 2005, most histories of the technologies that enable Ajax start a decade earlier with Microsoft’s initiatives in developing Remote Scripting.”

“Like DHTML, LAMP, or SPA, Ajax is not a technology in itself, but a term that refers to the use of a group of technologies together.”

“The first use of the term in public was by Jesse James Garrett in his February 2005 article Ajax: A New Approach to Web Applications. Garrett thought of the term while in the shower[1], when he realized the need for a shorthand term to represent the suite of technologies he was proposing to a client. ”

So, you see, Microsoft was not on the leading edge inventing Ajax either. The invented the equivalent of fire and matches, but didn’t see how they’d work together. Certainly credit is due to Microsoft for working on the relevant technologies, but “The Web development community, first collaborating via the microsoft.public.scripting.remote newsgroup and later through blog aggregation, subsequently developed a range of techniques for remote scripting in order to enable consistent results across different browsers. In 2002, a user-community modification to Microsoft Remote Scripting was made to replace the Java applet with XMLHttpRequest.”

So, looks like Microsoft wasn’t exactly leading the charge here either.

As far as the article, I tried Live back a couple months ago, almost threw up when I saw the UI, and uninstalled it. I’ll wait until Messenger Plus supports it.

And yes, I can chime in as yet another Canadian that has all of their contacts on MSN, with no AIM/AOL, ICQ or Yahoo for that matter. I suspect Americans only use AIM as so many of you had or use AOL for internet access beginning years and years ago, where as we had regional ISPs, so it was ICQ or MSN. MSN won with it’s cleaner interface. Remember how ICQ literally had about 4 ways to do everything, with menus upon menus? Nasty, lol!

…Donovan

Here’s a good question for Microsoft… why the hell does Windows Live Messenger have so many useless features and why do they continue to add features despite the fact that nobody gives a damn about them?

I’m the average user and I want a simple messenger to communicate with others. After all, that’s the whole point of it. I don’t want to install a new 20 Meg version every 3 days because they added more crap to it. I don’t want my life to revolve around it. I don’t want to spend hours trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with it when it crashes 10 times in a row.

I don’t think it will fail because of people like me who don’t want to spend more time trying out different messengers when there’s one on your computer already.

I don’t know if someone has mentioned this before, but you CAN use Windows Live Messenger by using @google.com or @yahoo.com or whatever e-mail you got. You do this through making an e-mail as sign in (EASI) account. Poke around and you should see the option to make one.

Live Messenger is toooooo slow. I hate when IM programs (like ICQ for example) get too overloaded with other useless features that make them too complex to use.

But yes, you can use a different email address to get a passport account. Speaking of AIM, I actually have a contact on my MSN list who’s passport is an AOL email address.

And to voice what many others have said, a great deal of people use MSN. I have friends all around the world where MSN is the prevelant IM program. You have to think outside of America. I used to hate MSN because I used to use ICQ and Yahoo before, and compared to them MSN was so basic. But eventually I had to switch because everyone started using MSN. And now I don’t know anyone who uses anything else, even AOL girl I mentioned above only uses MSN.

In response to your comment on using your own email address you actually can, although I admit it’s a bit hard to find.

Vist http://passport.net - register your email address and you can sign into MSN with it. I use my .Mac account email to sign into MSN :-)

I just find it funny that people are used to reading things online, which are surrounded by ads, yet they whine about some ad that is barely noticeable (

Oops, didn’t notice no less-than brackets allowed…anyway, to continue…

… that is barely noticeable (less than 1 inch, depending on resolution I guess) or if the contact window is not even open, the ad is not displayed at all.

The ad’s in msn and windows live messengers can easily be removed using another windows technology. Open IE and go to the most viewed sites in history. Simply copy the adresss from the page thats the ad and put it on the blocked list in IE settings.

My computer does not support sharing folders. Wat can i do 2 make it work?

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned, but you can use a gmail account for windows live messenger.

Just want to point out that you you can associate non-hotmail accounts with Passport.net. (But then the check mail and inbox status wouldn’t work so well ;p)

anything that has something to do with windows live is now screwed. spaces… everything…

I really like live messenger…

you do not need a hotmail account to use windows live messenger…

i am using it with my gmail email account (google) and my yahoo email account…

just associate what ever email address you want with an new or existing passport account…

cool stuff…

“If Microsoft just made its messenger email independent, as in I can sign in with a gmail or yahoo account instead of a hotmail email address, this would simplify the process greatly.”

You can…
I have a belgacom.net account which I to sign in with, and from what I have heard, gmail users automaticly are registered to the passport service so you can login without any other troubles… No hotmail account required.

Might have changed though, and if it has, im sorry for writing this:P

-Arre

i disaggree with u. i think windows live messenger is great. u can use yahoo email with it as well. it is completely custimizable with a patch tool easily found on the internet

hello i dont like windows live mail and i want to delete it how do i do that?! because when i try and edit my space its very different to how it used to be so i want to change it now!! help me please

Since Apple has decreased it’s prices, and the macbooks are really affordables, I’m a P.C user that has decided to switch.
I have always wanted to own a mac and since now I can, I will do it as soon as possible.
I think microsoft are making a huge mistake by not making their new messenger run on OS X.
I don’t think the new vista will convince all those wannabe mac users to stay on a P.C. Apple finally got it, we need cheaper mac to make the switch.
Adios P.C.

I use windows live messenger, but i dont think it really depends on the “features” of a IMclient, just on whos the biggest. As if the tens of millions of people on AIM are guna switch over to Yahoo Beta or Windows Live coz they think its “better” too much work. I’m dutch, and in Europe MSN Messenger is huge, simply we dont like nothin wit AMERICA in it, (AIM) whahahhaha. So everyone uses MSN, now “Windows Live” (i hate all that live stuff, just a new name, doesnt really mean anything).

Personally, I’m a big IMer, i have googletalk, yahoo, msn, yahoo and sum small other stuff. i’ve used trillian, but I only really need MSN Messenger, so I really don’t see the need.

I’m NOT a MICROSOFT fan at all. Though I must say theyre improving. Ow and btw… U HAV TO HAV AN HOTMAIL ACCOUNT? u dont, u can register with any email account. And this more than a year ago, maybe its different in the US? But I don’t see how this can be the case.. anyways.

Windows Live now support chattin with Yahoo users, and Skype? well if you hav all of your contacts u need on ur MSN list, its just like skype and even better, u can call normally too, play games, application sharing, the sharing folders… My mom doesnt do torrents, she wudnt know whaere to begin, the name wud freak her out. I even hav my grandma on, and wana send her my pictures, all i do is drag and drop, when she comes on it does it automaticly,so it can be handy.

In denmark nearly everybody is on Windows Messenger so I only think you use AIM because it started out as an america online service, are there any trouth in that? before XP came there were loads on ICQ but all switched over.

hey I’m a new mac user and i’m totally lost. can anyone help me please.

Rasha, msn live messenger is not available for the mac. You can get hold of msn for the mac but not the latest version.

Ed - thanks a lot! This worked like a charm. I’m going to post it again in case someone else missed it.

“The ads in msn and windows live messengers can easily be removed using another windows technology. Open IE and go to the most viewed sites in history. Simply copy the adresss from the page thats the ad and put it on the blocked list in IE settings.”

I’ll just elaborate for the less computer literate, if you don’t mind.

So all you have to do to get rid of the ads is open Internet Explorer, go to “history” (a toolbar should appear on the side), and click “View: by most visited”. Then there should be something near the top which looks like this:

“http://rad.msn.com/ADSAdClient31.dll?”…

Don’t click it - instead, right click and select “properties”. The URL should be highlighted in front of the words “Internet Address”. Hit CTRL+C to copy this URL.

Next, under “Tools”, select “Internet Options”. Go to the “Security” tab, and there should be four menus (with colourful logos): Internet, Local Intranet, Trusted Sites, and Restricted Sites. Click on “Restricted Sites” (should be a red circle with a white line through it).

On the right, there’s a button labeled “Sites…”. Push the button and a new window pops up. Select the field “Add this Web site to the zone:” and push CTRL+V to paste the copied URL in. Then just click “Add”, and you’re done!

Congratulations. Next time you open Windows Live Messenger, the advertisements field will be blank. True, it doesn’t get rid of it so there’s a bunch of wasted space, but at least there isn’t an annoying animated ad there like there was before. Yay!

Plugins can greatly extend usability of Messenger. Just checkout msgplus live. Also, you don’t need a hotmail account to use messenger. I use my yahoo and gmail accounts fine, all you need to do is verify them.

And no, outside the boundaries of US society AIM is almost unheard of. Microsoft need not worry too much about the US market. Because Messenger is really the world’s biggest IM client.

The only good thing about any of Microsofts comunsumer products (as opposed yo business) besides picture it, are there email “hotmail & msn intergrated” Windows Live Spaces is weak and In my opinion fail once msn shuts down all chat rooms and groups with everybody on my space now anyway (IT SEEMS EVERYBODY IS ON BOTH AIM AND MY SPACE THESE DAYS) Microsoft thinks they know what best for you , You dont know what you want ! I mean you cant even use a simple social networking function such as buddy chat like on AIM and msn or live wants to cancel chat services and compete with the likes of AIM and MySpace ???
They say that its no longer a popular medium but there are at any given time 2500 users logged on to it and now with no “searchable ” multi user chat function in WLM only the ability to chat with multiple people that are on your contact list only who will use this????

And now with msn who never properly advertised there chat ” the very reason anybody would use competitor online service AOL is the chat rooms-community)
they couldve put text ads or had there sysbots room guards post periodical links to partner sites like ebay or verizon or audi telling of new products what not???
Who will use msn internet services now??? or subsctibe to hotmail plus
and with this kind of user drop off who will use Window Live messenger?

This has been mentioned in a few of the comments. But something I would like to reiterate. I forgive you as I understand as an American its hard to see anything beyong your own country. But Windows Live (formerly MSN) messenger has the largest user base in the World - the WORLD. AOL is pretty much not used outside of the US. In Europe (or EMEA - Europe, Middle East, Africa region) the user base is massive, not to mention Oceania, Asia. China is a huge virgining market for them as they have released there in the past year or so.

Messenger clients are all about being able to “chat” with people on the internet so it should be remembered that the internet does go outside of the US. So why limit yourself to a “chat” product that has only a US user base. I have friends from all around the world and i am sorry but all of them use MSN/Windows Live Messenger.

Yeah guys, like several fellow Europeans have already stated: MSN is standard here in Europe. I’m from Sweden, and a popular joke - yet painfully accurate - is that when picking up chics nowadays, you don’t ask for their number - you ask for their MSN-adress.

I’m also a mac user, and I have to point out that just the other day a new version of MSN was released for OS X, called Windows Live Messenger. It’s still as gay as ever but hey, look at it this way: I’ve got all of my friends on MSN and maybe I don’t get video and nudges and shit like the PC-users get, but at least I have no stupid tabs and I’m completely ad free (touch wood).

Good article, though. Very thorough and very funny, alas very american. ;)

Be good now !
Sebastian

And yeah, one more thing.. AIM and AOL are pretty much non-existent outside of the US. That’s the problem with iChat.

I’m a mac user and I’d give half a leg to be spared from the microsoft reign of terror. I’d love it if everyone I know went over to iChat instead, but let’s face it: Windows Live is - after all - a pretty descent client, and after using iChat for a week or two I sorta admit that it sucks.. ass.. big time, in comparison to MSN.

Plus, the only ones I’ve got on my iChat list is like my mom and some dude in Canada. Logging onto iChat is for me like opening up an empty old wallet with moths flying out of it. It’s dead, you know? I feel that Apple is doing the same error with iChat as Microsoft is doing with MSN: limiting the possibility of conversation to a single protocol, forcing users to choose between one of two worlds (or three, with Skype) for hooking up with your homies online.

In my utopia, best would be to have one single communicative protocol with heaps of independant clients to choose from - most of which open source and completely ad free. But I don’t know, with corporate america trying to dominate the world and all. ;)

Sorry for the length of the post, just had to point out a lot of functionality issues with all chatting services mentioned here. Although its no surprise that the lady misinformed you (corporations and especially microsoft rarely put informed people in unpredictable public situations…its dangerous), I would have expected someone complaining so much about ignorance to have probably done a lot of this homework already :)

Just wanted to say that Microsoft passports have been open to any e-mail adress (used for verification). Also there are open source MSN Messenger protoc